Ticket Machines - machines missing or broken, and penalty fare implications (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[swlines]

The problem is, as soon as the ticket machine's clock turns 0930, the option of a 'standard day return' disappears from the screen, and the only ticket offered is a cheap day return.  However, as I understand it, if I catch the 0928, even if it's delayed by a few minutes, I should have bought a 'standard day return' - but the machine doesn't allow me to do so, because the dear old pensioners in front of me (bless them - I'll be one some day soon!) took so long to buy their much less time-critical ticket!

Technically speaking, if the train is late and departed after 0930 the ticket is valid - at least, that's what applies down here in SWT^▸ (South West Trains) land and RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) don't argue it.

[gaf71]

whenever i've put anything in to one of those machines it's offered the full range of tickets availiable for that time of day??

Thanks, vacman! I can only comment on our machines at Nailsea, but the problem is that our machine was actually installed in the open on platform 2, rather than inside the existing shelters.  This machine faces the early morning sun, so it's almost impossible to read the screen: from about 0920 onwards, lots of those eligible for 'older person discounts' (I'm not being ageist!) are struggling to work out how to buy off peak tickets for the later 0946 service to Paddington.  Fair enough, but there's a growing queue of commuters, who want to buy a return ticket for the 0928 to Bristol Temple Meads - which is, perhaps fortunately in this example, delayed by a few minutes, let's say.

The problem is, as soon as the ticket machine's clock turns 0930, the option of a 'standard day return' disappears from the screen, and the only ticket offered is a cheap day return.  However, as I understand it, if I catch the 0928, even if it's delayed by a few minutes, I should have bought a 'standard day return' - but the machine doesn't allow me to do so, because the dear old pensioners in front of me (bless them - I'll be one some day soon!) took so long to buy their much less time-critical ticket!

Why does the machine just remove the option for me to buy the ticket I need to buy because of its clock mechanism?  Or would you, hearing this apparently implausible story, allow me to buy the correct ticket on the train?   

I would let you buy ticket on train if i heard this story, but your best bet would be to buy the CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')), explain what happened when(if?) ypur ticket is checked, and pay the excess. This would happen anyway if the TM^‡(resolve)/conductor was on the ball, but to be honest if you bought the ticket after 0930 I'd let you travel on a CDR!

[vacman]

I wouldn't see a problem with this?? You can still buy an SDR though, you have to look the fare up using the "A to Z station index", sorry, i've become a bit of an expert on these machines! These machines are ideal for busy stations that have a ticket office aswel as you find that your regulars will just go straight to the machine and buy what they need without having to queue up, but more brain power should have gone into the positioning of these machines, surely everybody knows that the sun rises in the East, hangs around in the south and then sets in the West!!

[Graz]

As I've said before I've had several issues with these darned things, including:

* Near impossible to see what's being displayed on the screen in direct sunlight
* Rejecting all my money I put in because I was 20p over, despite it telling me change was available
* Rejecting all my money a second time because I was taking about 30 seconds to find exact change to put in
* Rejecting every note people tried to put in (My ^5 note included), 2 other people tried without success that day
* Cards not being read properly
* Machine being 'Out of Service' for no given reason
* Overly complex interface

Slightly different topic but on the subject of penalty fares, it should be the case that any station where the ticket office isn't open should be exempt from PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) even if there are these ticket machines because of the serious issues with them. Any station where the office is open should have them, though, and people should be encouraged to use them. It's not fair to criminalise people who haven't been able to get their ticket from a malfunctioning/unusable ticket machine and have had no other option.

[vacman]

As I've said before I've had several issues with these darned things, including:

* Near impossible to see what's being displayed on the screen in direct sunlight
* Rejecting all my money I put in because I was 20p over, despite it telling me change was available
* Rejecting all my money a second time because I was taking about 30 seconds to find exact change to put in
* Rejecting every note people tried to put in (My ^5 note included), 2 other people tried without success that day
* Cards not being read properly
* Machine being 'Out of Service' for no given reason
* Overly complex interface

Slightly different topic but on the subject of penalty fares, it should be the case that any station where the ticket office isn't open should be exempt from PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) even if there are these ticket machines because of the serious issues with them. Any station where the office is open should have them, though, and people should be encouraged to use them. It's not fair to criminalise people who haven't been able to get their ticket from a malfunctioning/unusable ticket machine and have had no other option.

Couldn't agree more, I think at unstaffed stations in the PF areas they should have put in PERTIS^▸ (Permit to travel) machines, these are Permit to travel machines where you just put in any coins and the machine gives you a voucher which proves which station you boarded at, it reduces fare evaision by showing which station you actually came from, so for e.g. if you boarded at Oldfield Park going to Bristol, when you arrived at the barriers you couldn't say "I came from Stapleton Road mate" and thus not pay the apropriate fare. I think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are regretting putting these TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)'s at unmanned stations as they cause problems, why they cant just have someone in a hut with an Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) machine I don't know! far more customer friendly!

[grahame]

Does anyone know what the cost is to buy and install a ticket machine?  Or if not, what would you guess?  I'm looking for the price of a machine such as those installed at many of the stations in these parts which are not manned throughout train service hours.

[eightf48544]

They come from Germany.

Probably at least ^20,000. I think that's what I was told.

They are reasonbly sophisticted if programme correctly. You are supposed to be able to buy tickets for tommorrow and pick up advance purchased tickets.

The ones in the London area won't give you the old NSE^▸ (Network South East) 4 for 2 off peak tickets.

[vacman]

^30,000 per machine, installed, they are great bits of kit apart from the fact that they don't do groupsave tickets! however, local railcards are now recognised on them!

[grahame]

Magic - thanks.

[Conner]

^30,000 per machine, installed, they are great bits of kit apart from the fact that they don't do groupsave tickets! however, local railcards are now recognised on them!

They dont do Rovers/Rangers either.

[swlines]

Contact Scheidt & Bachmann for a full costing list.

I'm sure they can issue rovers though - just has to be set up...

[Conner]

I'm sure they can issue rovers though - just has to be set up...

Well all the ones I have seen in Devon and Cornwall can't.

[Graz]

I don't understand why they can't do Groupsave tickets- surely it can't be that difficult to put Groupsave - 3 and Groupsave - 4 options on all tickets where a Cheap Day Return is valid. 

[swlines]

Groupsave generally isn't done due to the possible problem of people travelling apart, returning on different trains, etc. Hence why guards issue them and explain the terms!

[grahame]

We seem to have gone slightly off topic, but I've got the answer that I was looking for on the price, so I'll ride along.   

Can the machines issue tickets from stations other than those at which they are located? If I've taken the bus up to Chippenham in the morning, but want to return later in the day and travel through on the 19:01 to Melksham or Trowbidge, can I buy a Melksham to Swindon ticket from the machine.  Similarly, if I'm travelling to Didcot, then onward to Paddington, can I buy my Didcot to Paddington ticket from the machine at Chippenham.