FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[Btline]

I think the Virgin way is the way to go.

Serve quality meals, with china etc., on key peak trains (i.e. where Anytime tickets only are valid - making sure a profit it made), free of charge to First Class passengers.

Yes, it means Standard passengers have to go without, but the Virgin way is viable. I commend them for attempting to retain a dining service.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should re-instate the Pullman service on key peak trains, but serve it free to First Class passengers only, in both carriages. Then switch the Coach F seating into Standard Class seats.

[devon_metro]

I think having up to 500 Travelling Chef customers is far more lucrative. Instead of 100 free Pullman meals making a collosal lost.

Maybe give First Class ticket holders 50% discount on purchases or something.

[r james]

I thought FGW^▸ (First Great Western) were going to consider wifi?

[John R]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should re-instate the Pullman service on key peak trains, but serve it free to First Class passengers only, in both carriages. Then switch the Coach F seating into Standard Class seats.

Assuming the 0730 Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to Paddington is a key train (it's the only one that appears to be recognised as such currently by virtue of having a Travelling Chef), I could get up a bit earlier and have a free full brekkie every morning on my way to work.  All for ^18 per day. That would be hopelessly uneconomic for FGW, as well as very bad news for my waist and cholestoral level. 

[Btline]

Is a First Class return ^18?

[devon_metro]

Quite obviously not.

Presumably its a break down of John R's annual/monthly season ticket.

[John R]

Average daily cost, Nailsea to Swindon based on an annual season and number of working days less holidays etc.

[grahame]

I have been reminded (by moderators, rather than any of the posters here) of an element of the forum agreement which states:

You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is ... invasive of a person's privacy ...

There's some concern that we're getting close to the border line of this thread getting too personal - potentially in "both directions". Can I ask all posters to ensure a good example is set on this part of the forum, which is public facing.

Edit to add ... When combined with some later posts, there was a handful of posts in this thread which were potentially invasive of privacy and I have just (20:33 on 4th May) removed them. This may mean that some of the other comments below look a little odd - my apologies for this, but I've better things to do than to rewrite everyone's posts ... and if I did, someone would sure as heck object!

[broadgage]

I think having up to 500 Travelling Chef customers is far more lucrative. Instead of 100 free Pullman meals making a collosal lost.

Maybe give First Class ticket holders 50% discount on purchases or something.

500 travelling chef customers ! never ! at least not on the same train, if the service appears at all, it can only cope with a handfull of orders at a time.
Orders are taken two or three at a time, with no more orders taken until these have been prepared and served.

On key trains, bring back pullmans, not free which I fear would be hopeleslesly un-economic, but at about the present price, even if not profitable.
The facility to purchase a proper meal at a fair price, should be part of the first class travell experience.

As others point out, Virgin manage to do it for free, so surely FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could manage a paid for meal service.
As also pointed out above, to provide free meals on FGW is unlikely to be viable due to the many relativly cheap journey oportunities, where the cost of the meal would be a fair % of the fare.

The pullman should be mainly for first class ticket holders, with standard class only being admitted if space permits (this is supposed to be the case now, but is not enforced)
I would certainly not wish to see first class, non dining passengers have to use standard class, in order to make room for standard class passengers eating in coach F which has first class seats.

[willc]

Virgin don't do it for free - not does anyone offering free/inclusive food, snacks, drinks. The fares always include an allowance for this, even if it is just to cover the cost of providing it - they're not in business to lose money.

That's how Ryanair claims to offer flights for a fiver, by stripping out all the elements that make up the all-inclusive fare of other airlines, then adding them back on when you do outrageous things like wanting to take a suitcase with you when you go on holiday.

Restaurant car meals are expensive to provide, and with speeded up journeys since the 1970s, far fewer people have been eating them, so they have been the first target when it comes to cost-cutting in the current economic climate. Even Virgin's offer is pretty tightly controlled, with only sandwiches and snacks from 10am to 4pm and after 7pm.

And never mind providing dining seats, I'm sure the TMs^‡(resolve) out here will attest that there are a good number of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) peak services which need every one of the first class seats in the buffet cars for paying passengers who have no interest whatever in a sit-down meal. If you were to put in standard class seats, and turn the buffet car round, you would be short of first class seats on these trains and have FC^‡(resolve) customer hosts having to fight their way past the buffet queue with hot food. Hmm...

[Mookiemoo]

I do not think I have ever taken anything out on the CH or TM^‡(resolve) - the tone got lost in the typing. -

o yes you have. You have upset quite a few Train Managers with your refusal to offer up for examination your season ticket. you normally just leave it on the table in its closed railcard holder and when asked for your ticket you just point to it on the table.

I believe there were three isolated incidents - two of them were with someone who is universally hated by most staff and passengers alike (I say most - I'm know at least one CH who like the individual), especially now I believe he has been promoted to hated management. 

The other occasion I was ill and just wanted to get home

If its the person I think you are talking about - only disliked by staff who wanted to do as little as possible and passengers who didnt like having their tickets checked properly and being asked to buy a ticket if they didnt have one.

And from conversations I have overheard, your unwillingness to hand your season ticket to train managers in the same way that tens of thousands of other passengers do every week was on more than 3 occasions and certainly involved more than one or two train managers.

people in glass houses etc etc.......

Nope - 2 - a woman out of london and the subtext individual.

Now, I do always leave the ticket on the table when I sit down - apart from those two instances, no one has EVER asked me to hand it to them!  They just see it and check it.  The woman out of London irritated me because she could be ****** bothered to step away from the door in the buffet.  And yes, I have a problem with the subtext individual and the demeanour displayed.  Sums up everything I hate about the current attitude - assume everyone is evading until prove otherwise

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for your post, flamingo.

- As I'm sure most staff on here know by now who is being refered to by mookiemoo, I'll personally nail my colours to the mast and say that, although while not perfect (who is, I'm not), I do think that the individual that is being refered to was a very good TM^‡(resolve) (and a scourge to fare dodgers and others who tried to play the system) and is shaping up to be good in his new role. I also am surprised that the Mod's have not deleted the posts, as it is pretty obvious who is been refered to, but as they remain, I'm going to defend him.

I'll leave our members to comment on other aspects of your well-articulated post, but I would like to reply specifically to your point about the moderators' role here, if I may (as it's happened 'on my watch')?

I must emphasize that it is not the style of moderation on this forum to simply delete posts by members: that is seen very much as a last resort - and those very few 'offending' posts tend to be removed 'behind the scenes' (not deleted outright) even in those cases, while the 'rights and wrongs' are debated.

In this particular case, while it may seem clear to some FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff who is being referred to in this topic, no names have been mentioned, and we in the admin team have been content to monitor this topic, without stepping in, while it remains so.  However, you would possibly be flattered if you knew just what close attention we have been giving to this (and another) topic, just to make sure that these discussions remain within the terms of the forum agreement.

Please feel free to continue this discussion on the removal of First Class perks, and any related off-shoots: provided it doesn't get personal, we moderators will not need to step in.

Chris. 

[grahame]

- Regarding a specific comment about an "assume everybody is evading until they prove otherwise" - of course we do, if you think about it for 10 seconds, why the hell do you think they get checked!

"Assume everyone is guilty until proven innocent" ... I had always taken it that (looking at a coach with 50 people in it), you would be taking an open mind as you speak with each of them, and assume that the majority were properly ticketed. How often do you find when you check all the tickets on a train that the majority have had an opportunity to purchase correct tickets already, but have intentionally failed to do so?

[John R]

- As a general comment on ticket checking for the benefit of season ticket holders out there, a "correct" ticket check involves the TM^‡(resolve) taking the ticket into their hand to confirm that the paper and print are correct , and comparing the number with the photocard, and the photocard with the individual proffering it. 
The assumption that season tickets do not need to be checked (the number of bad tempered sighs and eyes rolled up to heaven from season ticket holders) when doing a full ticket check constantly amazes me.  Just to illustrate what we are up against, a few weeks ago I (very politely) asked an individual to show his season ticket again as he'd been so quick flipping it up and back (upside-down) that I hadn't seen it properly - I was subjected to a harangue from him on the platform at Chippenham on a Friday evening to the effect that "He paid ^800 a month for his season ticket, shouldn't have to show it, and I needed to work on my customer service skills and find a new job". (It couldn't have been EK^▸ (Economy Klaus (web log)), as it hasn't featured in his blog!).

My only complaint about season ticket checks on HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) is that they don't seem to happen often enough. Couple of times a week by my reckoning. I would welcome you check my ticket in the manner you suggest every single day, as it would mean that the freeloaders and fraudsters would get caught more often.

 

[devonian]

Just got to log in, to comment on posts since my last post:
 - I didn't mean to imply any poster took their frustrations out on the TM^‡(resolve)'s, it was a general comment on future behavior (guilty consciences kicking in?)

 - Regarding a specific comment about an "assume everybody is evading until they prove otherwise" - of course we do, if you think about it for 10 seconds, why the hell do you think they get checked! Go through checking tickets for a week, and you will hear every excuse possible - to the extent that if I hear a new excuse, I'm inclined to let them away with it purely for the novelty value.

 

That's fine - but you can then hardly expect law abiding fare paying passengers not to get a little 'annoyed' when they are automatically assumed guilty. I for one have got mightly pee'd off with ticket checking staff who were rude and down right unpleasent. Passengers pay enough to at least get a little respect. A distinction needs to be made - you can't assume everyone is trying to get a ride for free.

And this doesn't apply to everyone for sure - I have had some very understanding ticket checks - but then I have explained any situation clearly and have never been in the wrong (to the best of my knowledge).

I've worked in a variety of customer facing roles and now run my own business. If I were to address my customers in the manner in which some ticket checks are carried out when it comes to paying, I would be losing custom.