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Author Topic: Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion  (Read 780456 times)
ZoŽ
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« Reply #465 on: February 04, 2011, 04:09:06 pm »

While I abhor the practice of running diesel trains under the wires for 400 miles from London to Edinburgh, before continuing on non-electrified lines to Aberdeen or Inverness, I don't think it makes sense to have a mode change on the London - Plymouth / Penzance route until electrification reaches at least Exeter.  The additional complexity and operational risks from the change-over would not be worth it.  Nor would the time penalty and potential overcrowding issues of going via Bristol.
With line speed improvements Paddington to Bristol and Bristol to Exeter, going via Bristol wouldn't really be a time penalty.  The Berks and Hants route is not suited for higher speeds.
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Electric train
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« Reply #466 on: February 04, 2011, 04:37:57 pm »

Once an electrification programme gets started, these "fill-in" schemes become more viable and skilled teams can be kept working efficiently.
Only one problem with this theory, as UK railway history has proved, the problem is called HM Government; they just keep interfering and every few years with a change of rosette colour as they say at a terminus all change
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
Tim
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« Reply #467 on: February 04, 2011, 04:53:04 pm »


Eurostar's managed to raise their third rail shoe and raise their pan and vice versa quite successfully. 

good point.  Mind you they were the most complex and most expensive (and least intensively used) trains in the country.

Personally,  I can't see the issue with desiel all the way from Paddington to Penzance, the proportion under the wires is a small fraction of the journey and the energy wasted in carting arround two sets of traction equipment for the whole journey will cancel out any environmental benefit of the small electric portion of the journey.  We would be much better using bi-mode Meridians on the ECML or perhaps TPE or XC routes for example. Bi-mode on the B and H only makes sense when the wires start to get to Exeter or Plymouth.   

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woody
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« Reply #468 on: February 04, 2011, 09:54:01 pm »

Can the Meridians be fitted with tilt actuators like their Virgin class 221 cousins and the Paddington/Penzance route fitted with TASS (Tilt Authorisation and Speed Supervision) to speed things up.If ever there was a route that would benefit from tilt then this is it given the track geometry particularly west of Exeter.
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willc
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« Reply #469 on: February 05, 2011, 01:10:19 am »

Quote
Can the Meridians be fitted with tilt actuators

Not that straightforward, as the bogies on the 221s are a different design to the 220s and Meridians, with heavy-duty outside frames.
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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #470 on: February 05, 2011, 10:43:29 am »

Can the Meridians be fitted with tilt actuators like their Virgin class 221 cousins and the Paddington/Penzance route fitted with TASS (Tilt Authorisation and Speed Supervision) to speed things up.If ever there was a route that would benefit from tilt then this is it given the track geometry particularly west of Exeter.
The tilt mechanism adds a lot of weight to the 221 Voyagers. They weigh 56.6 tons per coach, whereas the non-tilting 220s weigh 46.4 tons per coach. That's an awful lot to carry around, with all that that implies about fuel consumption. West of Plymouth it would make no difference - the number of stops means that acceleration is more important than going round curves at a higher speed.
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willc
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« Reply #471 on: February 05, 2011, 10:49:05 am »

It's much more the bogie frames than the actual tilt kit when it comes to the weight penalty. A lot of extra metal to cart around.
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woody
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« Reply #472 on: February 08, 2011, 10:22:34 am »

 Reference the latest Daft proposals for FGW what a dogs dinner of half baked and half hearted half measures.If only the government had the same appetite for the here and now as it does for HS2.Great Westerns misfortune is that renewel has come during the worst economic and financial crisis facing the country since the 1929 wall street crash the inevitable result being the Dafts latest compromise solution of half measures aka botch up.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #473 on: February 08, 2011, 11:19:26 am »

For a second there I thought I had stumbled across the Daily Mail website...!
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anthony215
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« Reply #474 on: February 13, 2011, 06:43:26 pm »

We can expect and annoucement from the Governement on the electrification and IEP in the next 2-3 weeks if reports on the other forums are to be beieved.

Sad to say it looks like the idiots in the DFT have gone for the Bi-mode option   and the wires are only going to Bristol  (unless the WAG can come up with at least ^100 million) that said if the WAG could come up with the money they would be better off spending in on the valley lines electrfication which needs to be done asap.

Reports are suggesting that a deal has been done with the japaneese government  where the governemnt have got a large discount on the cost of the trains by selling some of the new eurofighter aircraft to the japaneese airforce
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onthecushions
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« Reply #475 on: February 14, 2011, 10:37:55 am »


DfT electrification approvals over the years seem to have majored on getting as much of the benefits as possible consonant with minimum track miles wired, minimum new stock and maximum cascaded.

Now MML needs c125 route miles wired compared to Wootton Basset - Cardiff's c108 miles. Hence dropping the latter would mostly pay for the former. If, in addition, MML's Meridians could come to FGW after the 125's are allowed to finally expire, then the Hitachi IEP order could also be sharply reduced.

Mix the lot up with a nice defence aerospace order to Japan..........

Remember Pearl Harbour?

OTC
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bignosemac
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« Reply #476 on: February 14, 2011, 11:28:48 am »

I don't think Pearl Harbor is at all relevant to this discussion.
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onthecushions
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« Reply #477 on: February 14, 2011, 10:52:24 pm »

Apologies for my uncharitable quip.

I had in mind Roger Ford's MR comment about, shall we say, "unequal trading".

Railway workshops turned into outlet centres depress me.

Will stick to OP.

OTC
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woody
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« Reply #478 on: February 17, 2011, 09:07:12 am »

 
   

Political and commercial will needed for rail electrification  and HS3,an interview with Mark Hopwood

Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2011/02/16/political-and-commercial-will-needed-for-rail-electrification-91466-28177887/#ixzz1ECmhIyk0
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anthony215
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« Reply #479 on: February 17, 2011, 09:46:28 am »

Here is another aticle from todays south wales evening post:

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/news/Rethink-calls-fears-grow-rail-line-upgrade/article-3234144-detail/article.html

To  be honest i would be happy if it even comes to Cardiff
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