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[42] Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion
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Author Topic: Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion  (Read 705871 times)
Tim
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« Reply #810 on: November 27, 2012, 03:44:45 pm »

I thought that there was a signaling issue too. 
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paul7755
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« Reply #811 on: November 27, 2012, 05:28:53 pm »

Signalling policy has changed significantly since electrification was announced.  However there seems to be no obvious signalling boundary at or near Newbury anyway.

Paul
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #812 on: December 29, 2012, 11:53:18 am »

The first electrification masts are up on the GWML!  Quite a surreal sight to be honest, but about half a mile of track just to the east of Reading station has now got masts up (no wires yet of course) in the same area as the new switches and crossings that have been installed at Kennet Bridge Junction.  I'm guessing that this is a short test/proving area prior to the HOOP train starting in earnest next year?
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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« Reply #813 on: December 29, 2012, 12:31:07 pm »

The first electrification masts are up on the GWML!  Quite a surreal sight to be honest, but about half a mile of track just to the east of Reading station has now got masts up (no wires yet of course) in the same area as the new switches and crossings that have been installed at Kennet Bridge Junction.  I'm guessing that this is a short test/proving area prior to the HOOP train starting in earnest next year?

........... Or is it ooooooooopppps we are behind on the plan, lets nail something in the ground very 50 meters 
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
Western Explorer
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« Reply #814 on: December 29, 2012, 02:34:02 pm »

I think it was always the plan to make passive provision for electrification during the Reading remodelling. It makes sense, in order to minimise disruption later, to do as much as possible in places that are currently away from the live railway. I suspect that now electrification beyond the extent of Crossrail is going ahead, it's worth putting up the masts before the new platforms open.
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Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #815 on: December 29, 2012, 03:44:47 pm »

The first electrification masts are up on the GWML!  Quite a surreal sight to be honest, but about half a mile of track just to the east of Reading station has now got masts up (no wires yet of course) in the same area as the new switches and crossings that have been installed at Kennet Bridge Junction.  I'm guessing that this is a short test/proving area prior to the HOOP train starting in earnest next year?

I think it was always the plan to make passive provision for electrification during the Reading remodelling. It makes sense, in order to minimise disruption later, to do as much as possible in places that are currently away from the live railway. I suspect that now electrification beyond the extent of Crossrail is going ahead, it's worth putting up the masts before the new platforms open.

Of the two options, I think Western Explorer's is the more likely explanation, despite my huge respect for Industry Insider's encyclopaedic knowledge. The High Output Operating Plant system isn't due for delivery for a few months yet.

Wondering whether it had jumped through all the HOOPs a few months early, I did a bit of searching. I found that HOOP will not deliver all of the electrification work:
Quote
A plan is being developed around working in 7 to 8 hour possessions between Sunday and Thursday, with longer 8-10 hour possessions on Fridays and Saturdays. Each evening, the team will normally take three two-mile possessions on one line ^ the adjacent line will still operate at 20-60 miles per hour. Approximately 80% of the work will be carried out using high-output processes, while the remaining 20% will be delivered by more traditional methods. An immense amount of work will need to be done with 13,784 piles, 1,427 concrete foundations and 13,078 structures all on the ^to do^ list.

That quote, which I hadn't seen before is from an article in The Rail Engineer, reporting on a conference with all the industry arms involved in electrification. The whole article gives an interesting insight into the logistical challenges faced by the project teams. Well worth a read.
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Now, please!
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« Reply #816 on: December 29, 2012, 04:05:00 pm »

I think it was always the plan to make passive provision for electrification during the Reading remodelling. It makes sense, in order to minimise disruption later, to do as much as possible in places that are currently away from the live railway. I suspect that now electrification beyond the extent of Crossrail is going ahead, it's worth putting up the masts before the new platforms open.

Yes that's the plan however the actual design and development doesn't quite match the plan a decision has been taken to do some piling and mast erecting "at risk"
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
John R
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« Reply #817 on: December 29, 2012, 04:24:50 pm »

An interesting comment in the article about electrification of the Gospel Oak to Barking line starting in 2014, yet this has yet to be approvied, and is the subject of much contention between the Mayor of London/TfL and DaFT. This point is followed up in the comments, though with no conclusive outcome.
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« Reply #818 on: December 29, 2012, 11:25:50 pm »

The first electrification masts are up on the GWML!  Quite a surreal sight to be honest, but about half a mile of track just to the east of Reading station has now got masts up (no wires yet of course) in the same area as the new switches and crossings that have been installed at Kennet Bridge Junction.  I'm guessing that this is a short test/proving area prior to the HOOP train starting in earnest next year?

I think it was always the plan to make passive provision for electrification during the Reading remodelling. It makes sense, in order to minimise disruption later, to do as much as possible in places that are currently away from the live railway. I suspect that now electrification beyond the extent of Crossrail is going ahead, it's worth putting up the masts before the new platforms open.

Of the two options, I think Western Explorer's is the more likely explanation, despite my huge respect for Industry Insider's encyclopaedic knowledge. The High Output Operating Plant system isn't due for delivery for a few months yet.

Thank you, and yes, having thought about it a little 'Western Explorer's' hunch is probably closer to the mark, though the section that's been done is very much still part of the live railway - I remember hearing that electrification of the new platforms would start to take place by the end of the year, so this may be the first sign of that phase of the work.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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« Reply #819 on: December 30, 2012, 12:09:29 am »

Thank you, and yes, having thought about it a little 'Western Explorer's' hunch is probably closer to the mark, though the section that's been done is very much still part of the live railway - I remember hearing that electrification of the new platforms would start to take place by the end of the year, so this may be the first sign of that phase of the work.

I last went into Reading (from Maidenhead) about three weeks ago by which time track had been laid into P13-15 from the Southern underpass. P11 and 12 are blocked by the footbridge support. I didn't notice any masts at that time.

Incidentally, I was told that the underpass was going to be laid with long sleepers so that conductor rail could be added later if needed (and there would also be room for OLE). I didn't see whether this had actually been done.
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« Reply #820 on: December 30, 2012, 12:16:49 am »

No, there's no masts within the station area at the moment.  Only the area I described at Kennet Bridge Junction, about half a mile east of the station extending about another half a mile towards London.

Regarding 3rd Rail electrification, platforms 13/14/15 have passive provision, as well as the underpass, so I assume compatible sleepers will be used in all of those areas.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
paul7755
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« Reply #821 on: December 30, 2012, 12:40:51 am »

I'm sure they will provide for third rail, but I don't think they are any different in length to any other sleepers are they? They just have a set of precast threaded inserts at either end where the pots can be fitted - I remember someone noticed that they'd been used somewhere on the North Downs route even though non-electrified.

(What I'm certain of is that the DfT were talking out of their hats when they said they'd have to be steel sleepers to allow for third rail...)   Huh

Paul
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« Reply #822 on: December 30, 2012, 08:55:30 am »

I thought the (old) underpass east of Reading had been slab tracked, if this is the case then the re-bar has to have extra depth of concrete and a few other measure to protect it from stray DC.  If its conventional sleepers then it doesn't matter too much as they are all the same length conrail or non conrail the big difference for third rail is the holes cast in for the pots but a bit of spot sleeper replacement would cure that, a little more time consuming if glued ballast has been used.

The only time I can envisage conrail trough the underpass would be as part of an AC / DC interface where a electrical section OHL overlaps a conrail electrical section.  The ORR and not keen to extend DC third rail and it is not current NR policy to extend it either.   

Operationally I cannot see much benefit over the cost of install and maintenance.   The ORR would require Track Isolating Switches (TIS) and Neg Short Circuiting devices fitted (traditional Hook Switches are out of favour especially for new schemes) and Neg Shorting Devices would be required for emergency isolations as the extension would be new.  These devices require a power supply and SCADA with associated mods to Eastliegh ECR.
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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
eightf48544
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« Reply #823 on: December 30, 2012, 10:33:17 am »

(traditional Hook Switches are out of favour especially for new schemes)

Remember being shown how to operate a hook switch when at Sutton. Never had to do it anger. One of the checks we had to do was ensure that every station had it's operating lever.
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BerkshireBugsy
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« Reply #824 on: December 30, 2012, 12:47:04 pm »

I thought the (old) underpass east of Reading had been slab tracked,

I'm not clear what this means (will google in a minute) but from memory the track passing through the eastern underpass is built normal sleepered track construction

The trouble is that this was done when the evenings were drawing in so I may be mistaken

Slab track duly researched
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