Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 11:55 29 Mar 2024
* Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
* Attempted murder charge after man stabbed on train
- KFC Nigeria sorry after disabled diner refused service
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
09:30 Weymouth to Gloucester
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
13:21 Newbury to Bedwyn
13:48 Bedwyn to Newbury
14:12 Newbury to Bedwyn
14:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
14:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
15:50 Bedwyn to Newbury
16:15 Newbury to Bedwyn
16:23 Westbury to Swindon
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
21:16 Westbury to Swindon
22:30 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
13:55 Paignton to London Paddington
14:36 London Paddington to Paignton
15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:10 Penzance to London Paddington
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 12:11:15 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[124] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[53] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[49] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[48] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[43] Return of the BRUTE?
[30] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 65 66 [67] 68 69 ... 176
  Print  
Author Topic: Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion  (Read 1046878 times)
BerkshireBugsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1640


Berkshire Bugsy Jr


View Profile
« Reply #990 on: September 24, 2014, 07:50:22 »

I suspect that it was a steel pile they are about 600 to 750mm in diameter come in 5m lengths often one is driven in and a second or even a third is attached to the top and then that driven in.  They have a number of bosses for bolting each other together of for attaching the OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") structure base plate to.

I've seen quite a few of those "tubes" in the ground from London to Reading but most of them are buried quite deep. What I find curious if that they don't appear to be spaced evenly and there seem to be some gaps where it seems there should be a support but isn't. Could this be because in some locations they are more difficult to install than others ?
Logged
ray951
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 461


View Profile
« Reply #991 on: September 24, 2014, 09:11:39 »

I suspect that it was a steel pile they are about 600 to 750mm in diameter come in 5m lengths often one is driven in and a second or even a third is attached to the top and then that driven in.  They have a number of bosses for bolting each other together of for attaching the OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") structure base plate to.
Yes that would be them and there were some other piles laying nearby so that would make complete sense.
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5191


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #992 on: September 24, 2014, 09:13:59 »

I think I saw a fair number of these 5m piles, er, piled up in Swindon the other week.

I too am surprised by the apparently patchy nature of operations. Most extremely there seems to be something going between Bath and Box Tunnel, with scaffolding barriers put up at roughly the right intervals.
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #993 on: September 24, 2014, 10:37:53 »

I too am surprised by the apparently patchy nature of operations. Most extremely there seems to be something going between Bath and Box Tunnel, with scaffolding barriers put up at roughly the right intervals.

That'll be so the foundation trenches can be dug.  Safety barriers are out up if they're close to the track.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
BerkshireBugsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1640


Berkshire Bugsy Jr


View Profile
« Reply #994 on: September 24, 2014, 10:58:45 »

Apologies if this has been asked before but are there any elements of the Electrification Program that require planning permission? I'm guessing that since Brunel first installed the railway planning rules may have changed a bit!
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18895



View Profile
« Reply #995 on: September 24, 2014, 11:17:48 »

Network Rail is, generally, exempt from planning permission regs on it's own land. However they do consult with local authorities and bodies such as English Heritage, Cadw in Wales, and Historic Scotland.

I've no doubt that specific sites of historic importance on the GWML (Great Western Main Line), such as Maidenhead Bridge, Wharncliffe Viaduct, Box Tunnel and Sydney Gardens in Bath have been given careful consideration.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #996 on: September 24, 2014, 11:23:03 »

Apologies if this has been asked before but are there any elements of the Electrification Program that require planning permission? I'm guessing that since Brunel first installed the railway planning rules may have changed a bit!

In general, they use something called 'permitted development rights' within the railway's existing boundaries.  in principle, the original Acts setting up the railway allow for maintenance and modifications connected to operation of the railway, in perpetuity.

Listed building consent is also then required for modifications to some structures.  As a broad generalisation they do not have to get permission for the overall concept of wiring, they just inform local authorities they are doing it, and explain how they are meeting requirements for important buildings...

Paul
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #997 on: September 24, 2014, 11:44:26 »

I've seen quite a few of those "tubes" in the ground from London to Reading but most of them are buried quite deep. What I find curious if that they don't appear to be spaced evenly and there seem to be some gaps where it seems there should be a support but isn't. Could this be because in some locations they are more difficult to install than others ?

From what I've read of the HOPS train, it includes a number of piling rigs, of different types that can operate separately, one of which is for very hard or difficult ground.   It would make sense to bomb along with the lighter equipment putting in the standard tubular piles and if a first attempt showed up difficult ground, then mark the location and leave it to the specialist rig coming later.

Another benefit of the type of piles chosen, with the flange mounted threaded holes, is that there's a transition plate from pile to mast that allows for verticality adjustment, meaning that within reason the piles don't have to be exactly plumb.  The same piles are used for many recent signal post installations, and even the massive signal gantries at Reading...

Paul
Logged
BerkshireBugsy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1640


Berkshire Bugsy Jr


View Profile
« Reply #998 on: September 24, 2014, 11:45:42 »

I've seen quite a few of those "tubes" in the ground from London to Reading but most of them are buried quite deep. What I find curious if that they don't appear to be spaced evenly and there seem to be some gaps where it seems there should be a support but isn't. Could this be because in some locations they are more difficult to install than others ?

From what I've read of the HOPS train, it includes a number of piling rigs, of different types that can operate separately, one of which is for very hard or difficult ground.   It would make sense to bomb along with the lighter equipment putting in the standard tubular piles and if a first attempt showed up difficult ground, then mark the location and leave it to the specialist rig coming later.

Another benefit of the type of piles chosen, with the flange mounted threaded holes, is that there's a transition plate from pile to mast that allows for verticality adjustment, meaning that within reason the piles don't have to be exactly plumb.  The same piles are used for many recent signal post installations, and even the massive signal gantries at Reading...

Paul

That makes perfect sense Paul - thanks
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5191


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #999 on: September 24, 2014, 13:29:24 »


Another benefit of the type of piles chosen, with the flange mounted threaded holes, is that there's a transition plate from pile to mast that allows for verticality adjustment, meaning that within reason the piles don't have to be exactly plumb.  The same piles are used for many recent signal post installations...


Fnaar fnaar! K-yuk k-yuk! Eat your heart out Finbarr Saunders!
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
Tim
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2738


View Profile
« Reply #1000 on: September 24, 2014, 16:47:21 »

Apologies if this has been asked before but are there any elements of the Electrification Program that require planning permission? I'm guessing that since Brunel first installed the railway planning rules may have changed a bit!

In general, they use something called 'permitted development rights' within the railway's existing boundaries.  in principle, the original Acts setting up the railway allow for maintenance and modifications connected to operation of the railway, in perpetuity.

Listed building consent is also then required for modifications to some structures.  As a broad generalisation they do not have to get permission for the overall concept of wiring, they just inform local authorities they are doing it, and explain how they are meeting requirements for important buildings...

Paul

That is my understanding too.  They did need planning consent for a few things like new depots but for putting the wires up they generally do not need consent.
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #1001 on: September 24, 2014, 16:50:17 »

NR» (Network Rail - home page) announce that Wantage Rd bridge will now not be closed during the works, the new bridge is to be built alongside it:
Quote
Network Rail has confirmed that the A338 Wantage Road bridge will remain open for the majority of the improvements.

Network Rail is building a new, higher bridge across the railway line as part of its Great Western Electrification Programme. New, faster, quieter and cleaner trains will draw power from overhead lines and the extra height is needed to ensure clearance.

The road will not need to be closed, as the new bridge will be constructed alongside the existing one. Minor, short-term restrictions may be in place at times during the process but for the majority of the time traffic will flow normally.

Once the new bridge is complete the old bridge will be demolished. Work will start in within the next couple of months and the bridge will open next summer
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/News-Releases/A338-Wantage-Road-will-stay-open-during-major-bridge-reconstruction-216d.aspx
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4356


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #1002 on: September 24, 2014, 19:16:36 »

Typical spacing of OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") structures on the GWML (Great Western Main Line) is 50 metres, (the ECML (East Coast Main Line) and MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) it is 70 metres) there are several different diameter piles being used depending on the structure required, it is likely the train will go out with all the same size piles and thump them in where required and then come back a thump in another size on another visit.

I have never managed to work out the logic behind OLE civil's engineers  Grin
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7156


View Profile
« Reply #1003 on: September 24, 2014, 19:45:35 »

Apologies if this has been asked before but are there any elements of the Electrification Program that require planning permission? I'm guessing that since Brunel first installed the railway planning rules may have changed a bit!

In general, they use something called 'permitted development rights' within the railway's existing boundaries.  in principle, the original Acts setting up the railway allow for maintenance and modifications connected to operation of the railway, in perpetuity.

Listed building consent is also then required for modifications to some structures.  As a broad generalisation they do not have to get permission for the overall concept of wiring, they just inform local authorities they are doing it, and explain how they are meeting requirements for important buildings...

Paul

The relevant planning law was posted here et seq.. Planning approval is required for lots of buildings, including all bridges, as they are not now possible as permitted development. However:
Quote
A.2. The prior approval referred to in paragraph A.1 is not to be refused by the appropriate authority nor are conditions to be imposed unless they are satisfied that^
(a) the development (other than the provision of or works carried out to a dam) ought to be and could reasonably be carried out elsewhere on the land; or
(b) the design or external appearance of any building, bridge, aqueduct, pier or dam would injure the amenity of the neighbourhood and is reasonably capable of modification to avoid such injury.

So the first question is - is a portal or gantry a bridge? I guess that could only apply to signal gantries with a walkway and a ladder each end; arguably that's a footbridge (albeit not public). 

For OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE"), it can't reasonably be built anywhere else, can it? But it's probably as well for NR» (Network Rail - home page) that it does doesn't seem to be in that list, since the current design is - let's face it - pretty ugly. Certainly enough to "injure the amenity" of most places. Whether it is "reasonably capable of modification to avoid such injury" is debatable, but I do think that better-looking structures are possible.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 23:25:39 by stuving » Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #1004 on: September 24, 2014, 22:03:12 »

Whether it is "reasonably capable of modification to avoid such injury" is debatable, but I do think that better-looking structures are possible.

Define "reasonably", with an accountant present. Ornate faux-Victorian wrought ironwork would be nice, but massed-produced and simple will win the day. It may not win awards for aesthetic content, but who expects that on a railway? Even the bits normally regarded as pretty - semaphore signals spring to mind - doubtless had their detractors in their early days. Necessity will trump art every time, but some will see fairness of form in the new OLE (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE").

As Spike Milligan put it: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You can get it out with Optrex".
Logged

Now, please!
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 65 66 [67] 68 69 ... 176
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page