Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[lordgoata]

As an example I understand from perusing information relating to the "Goring Gap" dispute that Network Rail are considering (at some point) taking down the masts installed and putting up something more acceptable to the Nimby's sorry locals.

I live in Goring and think the OHLE looks bloody hideous, the views have been completely ruined. BUT, I am also a realist, times change and so does the landscape.

PS. I also support Tesco opening (and having a useful shop that is open when all the others in the village are closed), rather than that boarded up, hideous eyesore we have had for the past 2 years, so not all locals are Nimby's! 

[lordgoata]

And in other news, I noticed at Pangbourne this morning they have started preparing piles/foundations for the masts on the platforms.

[paul7575]

As an example I understand from perusing information relating to the "Goring Gap" dispute that Network Rail are considering (at some point) taking down the masts installed and putting up something more acceptable to the Nimby's sorry locals. 

Alternatively, NR^» (Network Rail - home page) are too polite to say up front that they won't do it, and are offering talks about mitigating the problem in response to the critics.  IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) there is no way they'll change the masts retrospectively.

Paul

[Rhydgaled]

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), despite their fans, are nearing a point way beyond the end of their initial lifetimes. They were meant as a stop-gap to keep us moving until electrification.

I did not know this. How long were they intended to be in service?

A stop-gap yes, but I thought it was a stop-gap until the introduction of the APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train) (Advanced Passenger Train). I'm not sure which version of the APT was intended for GW^▸ (Great Western) at the time IC125 was born though, the APT-P (prototype) would of course have required electrification but the APT-E (experimental) was gas-turbine powered and didn't require electrification.

I count myself an HST fan ^ [snip]I'll miss them ^ and their capacious guard's vans when I put my bike on the train ^ but I'll welcome the electric, sleaker, faster, quieter IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) that replace them.

I'll probably miss the IC125s too, and with any luck will welcome their class 801 replacements on the Great Western. However, I expect I will see rather alot of class 800 'sardine midgets' instead of 801s.

[Bmblbzzz]

Having said that, I also remember the terrible smell of burning brake pads in the early 125s. According to what I heard at the time, this was because the carriages a/c was connected to the brake cooling circuit, and this had not been picked up in testing because... it had never been tested in motion with people in the carriages! 

The problem was solved, obviously, but that it happened at all shows a great lack of thought for the passengers (if the reason I heard was correct).

[Thatcham Crossing]

I also remember the terrible smell of burning brake pads in the early 125s

Not so sure it was only the early ones, I smelt it quite strongly only yesterday on a PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-SLO-RDG^‡(resolve) service (whilst decelerating for the SLO stop).

[Timmer]

Not so sure it was only the early ones, I smelt it quite strongly only yesterday on a PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-SLO-RDG^‡(resolve) service (whilst decelerating for the SLO stop).

You will when the driver has to slam on the breaks. It is very rare to smell the brakes these days. When I was a child it was always part of travelling on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) so I guess in the early days of the HSTs drivers breaked later than they do now.

[Tim]

My understanding is that the brake smell problem was almost, but not quite completely solved by BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) in the early days, by arranging for the dampers on the A/C air intakes which were designed to prevent entry of air when saloon air temperature is low to also close when the brakes were applied (see page 36 of http://www.porterbrook.com/downloads/brochures/Mk3%20Brochure.pdf).  You still get the occasional whiff though, presumably when the braking is heavy and the dampers are not completely closed (or when they reopen after braking has finished).  Having said that you also get an occasional whiff on other stock especially Mark IVs and class 158

[Bmblbzzz]

Tim's explanation tallies with what I remember being told, but in more detail (I might, possibly, have been given the same detail back then but doubt very much I would have understood it!)

[Electric train]

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), despite their fans, are nearing a point way beyond the end of their initial lifetimes. They were meant as a stop-gap to keep us moving until electrification.

I did not know this. How long were they intended to be in service?

A stop-gap yes, but I thought it was a stop-gap until the introduction of the APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train) (Advanced Passenger Train). I'm not sure which version of the APT was intended for GW^▸ (Great Western) at the time IC125 was born though, the APT-P (prototype) would of course have required electrification but the APT-E (experimental) was gas-turbine powered and didn't require electrification.

I count myself an HST fan ^ [snip]I'll miss them ^ and their capacious guard's vans when I put my bike on the train ^ but I'll welcome the electric, sleaker, faster, quieter IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) that replace them.

I'll probably miss the IC125s too, and with any luck will welcome their class 801 replacements on the Great Western. However, I expect I will see rather alot of class 800 'sardine midgets' instead of 801s.

The HSDT^▸ (Original name for High Speed Train)'s (IC125) designed in the early 1970's were a stop gap before full electrification of all main lines in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), there needed to be a rest bite due to the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) electrification costing more than originally estimated ................... sound familiar 

[TonyK]

The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), despite their fans, are nearing a point way beyond the end of their initial lifetimes. They were meant as a stop-gap to keep us moving until electrification.

I did not know this. How long were they intended to be in service?

I think that by the time the first was built, it was pretty obvious they were here to stay. It was indeed brought into play only because  of the problems with the APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train). You may think that as soon as an alternative looked like being available, the APT was doomed, if it wasn't already, and any pressure for electrification would disappear.

[Bmblbzzz]

Hang on ^ what did the APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train) have to do with electrification? I remember seeing one somewhere, once; perhaps it was Reading? Or maybe North Pole or somewhere similar near Paddington? Can't remember where, but I do remember it being a large number of points in my I Spy On a Train Journey book! Anyway, I'm sure that even if some APTs were electric, by no means all were (though how many were made? Can't have been many.)

[NickF]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-34594599

[TonyK]

Hang on ^ what did the APT^▸ (Advanced Passenger Train) have to do with electrification? I remember seeing one somewhere, once; perhaps it was Reading? Or maybe North Pole or somewhere similar near Paddington? Can't remember where, but I do remember it being a large number of points in my I Spy On a Train Journey book! Anyway, I'm sure that even if some APTs were electric, by no means all were (though how many were made? Can't have been many.)

There were only three APTs build for actual passenger use, plus one experimental prototype. All were powered by 25 KV AC. The start of the development was in the mid-1960s, and the expectation was for success in a short period of time, with a long production run following the first three entering service. Electrification was considered essential for this, and in 1977, a parliamentary select committee on efficiency in nationalised industries proposed a rolling programme of electrification for when it was ready.

Before that, it had become obvious that APT wasn't going to be a short-term development, and the British Rail Board authorised the rapid development of a high speed diesel to enter service by 1972 to fill the gap until APT was ready. In the event, APT didn't go into passenger service proper until 1981, and had few friends in the corridors of power. The HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) had been deployed from late 1975, and were well embedded in railway consciousness. The 1979 election saw a new government in place that eventually cancelled the electrification plans and privatised the railways. The HSTs were so good at the job, that there was nothing broke that needed mending. Until now, as they are heading towards relative retirement, although I am sure there will still be HSTs running somewhere in anther 20 years. Who could resist redeploying a fast train like that?

APT was quietly abandoned by 1986, although much of the technology developed for it found its way into the Pendolino design. Who knows - a few more years of work and more backing, and it may have been a goer today.

That's a s good a history as I have been able to compile. I am also a fan of the HST, but it's time to move on.

[Thatcham Crossing]

You will when the driver has to slam on the breaks (sic!). It is very rare to smell the brakes these days.

I would dispute that. I smell it nearly every time I travel on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train). Maybe I just have a keen sense of smell!

Will definitely miss them - one of the few trains left where you can stick your head out of the window like the "old days"!