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Author Topic: Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion  (Read 816318 times)
Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #2565 on: July 20, 2017, 12:51:50 pm »

Quote
Mr Grayling also announced:
◾plans to improve journeys times and connections between Swansea and Cardiff, south Wales, Bristol and London
◾plans to improve journeys times and connections across north Wales
direct services from Pembroke Dock to London via Carmarthen on new Intercity Express trains
◾station improvements at Cardiff and Swansea

At least one forum member will be pleased with point 3.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #2566 on: July 20, 2017, 01:18:40 pm »

all cancelled.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #2567 on: July 20, 2017, 02:04:45 pm »

HMG Statement here (with spin, of course!)

Quote
New improvements for rail passengers in Wales, the midlands and the north

The Department for Transport announces plans for new bi-mode trains for passengers with more seats and better on-board facilities.

Passengers in Wales, the midlands and the north will get faster and more comfortable journeys quicker under new plans announced by the government today (20 July 2017).

The Department for Transport is setting out plans for new trains on the Midland Main Line, Great Western Main Line and in the Lake District with increased seats and better on-board facilities.

Modern bi-mode trains will be used on Great Western and Midland Main Line, with passengers in Wales benefiting from new Intercity Express trains which will each deliver over 130 more seats and faster services.

Long distance journey times from Nottingham and Sheffield will also be reduced by up to 20 minutes in the peak, with the train operator in the Lake District beginning work to trial an alternative-fuelled train in this World Heritage Site.

Thanks to this new technology disruptive electrification works between Cardiff and Swansea, Kettering, Nottingham and Sheffield, and between Windermere and Oxenholme, will no longer be needed.

Passengers will benefit sooner and experience less disruption compared with putting up intrusive wires and masts along routes where they are no longer required.

The government today also published the consultation for the next East Midlands franchise, which will deliver reduced journey times for intercity services and more seats for long distance passengers at peak hours, as well as dedicated services and more capacity for commuters coming into London. The franchise will maximise the benefits of the upgrade of the Midland Main Line — the biggest investment in the route since it was completed in 1870.

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said:


“We are making the biggest investment in the railways since the Victorian era and upgrading services across the country, including in Wales, the midlands and the north.

“Passengers expect and deserve high quality rail services and we are committed to using the best available technology for each part of the network, delivering significant benefits for those who use our railways.”

Benefits along the specific routes include:

Cardiff to Swansea

From Autumn 2017, passengers in Wales will benefit from new Intercity Express trains which will each deliver over 130 extra seats, faster journey times and improved connectivity for South Wales to London with 40% more seats in the morning peak once the full fleet is in service.

Network Rail will also develop additional options to improve journeys for passengers in Wales. These will include:
•improving journeys times and connections between Swansea and Cardiff, and South Wales, Bristol and London
•improving journeys times and connections across North Wales
•direct services from Pembroke Dock to London via Carmarthen on new, state of the art Intercity Express trains
•station improvements at Cardiff Station
•station improvements in and around Swansea including looking at the case for additional provision

The Secretary of State also welcomed a proposal for Wales’ first privately funded railway station at St Mellons. The department will work with the promoters of the scheme as they develop their plans to the next stage.

The first new Intercity Express trains will enter service from this Autumn and once the whole fleet is introduced and electrification to Cardiff is complete journey times between Swansea, London and other stations along the route will be approximately 15 minutes shorter.

Midland Main Line

The next operator will be required to deliver modern, fast and efficient intercity and commuter trains, including a brand new set of bi-mode intercity trains from 2022, maximising the benefits of the largest upgrade of the Midland Main Line since it opened in 1870. This will improve journeys sooner, without the need for wires and masts on the whole route, with further investment to come to ensure Sheffield is ready for HS2.

Benefits include reducing journey times on long distance services from Nottingham and Sheffield by up to 20 minutes in the peak and delivering over 1000 additional seats an hour in the peak into London, an increase of more than 50%.

Oxenholme to Windermere

Passengers in the Lake District will benefit from 4 direct services a day in each direction between Windermere and Manchester Airport from May 2018.

The government has announced plans to ensure passengers enjoy brand new trains from December 2019. Journeys between Windermere and Manchester Airport will be improved sooner and with less disruption to services and local communities. It also means there is no need to construct intrusive wires and masts in this National Park.
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broadgage
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« Reply #2568 on: July 20, 2017, 02:07:24 pm »

Most regrettable IMO, but hardly surprising under the circumstances.
The electrification works already done have been one almighty c0ck up, badly over budget, hugely delayed, and have resulted in very considerable disruption to existing services.

Railway electrification is much hated by those along the route, who will regard this as an historic victory. How long until they demand that the electrification already done is removed ?

I fear that any significant new railway electrification is now dead for a generation. Minor additions and infill schemes might continue.

I also wonder if HMG know something that we don't regarding electricity supplies in years to come. Considerable doubts exist as to the sufficiency of UK generating capacity. Rota power cuts have only been averted by the narrowest of margins and a certain amount of luck in recent winters.
Diesel fuel can be stored against shortages, unlike electricity.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
brompton rail
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« Reply #2569 on: July 20, 2017, 02:48:17 pm »

Recent projected increases in electric car use (e.g. Volvo will be all electric soon) have brought forward comments about the need to increase generation to meet demand, so one way to curb that demand is to not expand railway electrification. Or am I too cynical.

Shares in Hitachi seem to be a good bet. New Midland Mainline stock - why does it need to be bi-mode? - though only to replace the HSTs really, as the 222s can carry on.

Ah well, so good to live in a country where the government plans ahead for decades to come.😢
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ChrisB
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« Reply #2570 on: July 20, 2017, 02:49:35 pm »

Don't knock that - the 222s can be used elsewhere, like on XC.....let's have 'em.
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Timmer
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« Reply #2571 on: July 20, 2017, 03:12:49 pm »

Don't knock that - the 222s can be used elsewhere, like on XC.....let's have 'em.
And most probably will be along with cascaded HSTs...the train that never dies  Wink
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #2572 on: July 20, 2017, 03:15:12 pm »

Refining of petrol and especially diesel uses huge amounts of electricity. I doubt if this is to do with reducing electricity demand, more to do with immediate budget constraints and the problems, engineering and political, encountered so far.
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Day return to Infinity, please.
Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #2573 on: July 20, 2017, 03:41:41 pm »

"Disruptive electrification works". "Intrusive wires". I suspect those comments will come back to bite DfT in the posterior next time there's a Goring Gap situation.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #2574 on: July 20, 2017, 03:41:50 pm »

Recent projected increases in electric car use (e.g. Volvo will be all electric soon) have brought forward comments about the need to increase generation to meet demand, so one way to curb that demand is to not expand railway electrification. Or am I too cynical.

Increasing use of battery electric vehicles brings dangers and opportunities. Quite a small reduction in demand for oil can cause major downward pressure on prices, and once people see the massive benefits of owning or leasing electric vehicles, the demand for petrol and diesel may well crash. Thankfully there is a lot of spare power generation capacity overnight, and most battery electric vehicles already have software which allows them to be charged using a timer. Also technology is ripening which will allow charging to be suspended at times of high demand,  and even for capacity to be borrowed from batteries.

I think I read somewhere that current generating capacity will allow for about half the vehicle fleet to be electrified. That process is likely to take at least 15 years, and in the meantime developments in grid storage and renewables are likely to continue.

So to answer your question: I don't know about you being too cynical. Isn't it just another manifestation of austerity?
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Tim
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« Reply #2575 on: July 20, 2017, 03:42:48 pm »

well done Network Rail.  You had your chance and you blew it! 
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Tim
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« Reply #2576 on: July 20, 2017, 04:05:47 pm »

Do we know if the Box-Bat-Temple Meads - Parkway route will be wired still?
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John R
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« Reply #2577 on: July 20, 2017, 04:50:46 pm »

"Disruptive electrification works". "Intrusive wires". I suspect those comments will come back to bite DfT in the posterior next time there's a Goring Gap situation.

Intrusive wires was used in respect of the Windemere electrification.  I hardly think a single track branch is going to have intrusive catenary. Were there any objections or was it just an excuse to a problem that didn't exist. 
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Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #2578 on: July 20, 2017, 05:13:37 pm »

Do we know if the Box-Bat-Temple Meads - Parkway route will be wired still?

Not at any time soon by the looks of things
Might just try to forget about it.
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Electric train
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« Reply #2579 on: July 20, 2017, 05:47:07 pm »

HMG Statement here (with spin, of course!)

Quote
New improvements for rail passengers in Wales, the midlands and the north

The Department for Transport announces plans for new bi-mode trains for passengers with more seats and better on-board facilities.

Passengers in Wales, the midlands and the north will get faster and more comfortable journeys quicker under new plans announced by the government today (20 July 2017).

The Department for Transport is setting out plans for new trains on the Midland Main Line, Great Western Main Line and in the Lake District with increased seats and better on-board facilities.

Modern bi-mode trains will be used on Great Western and Midland Main Line, with passengers in Wales benefiting from new Intercity Express trains which will each deliver over 130 more seats and faster services.

Long distance journey times from Nottingham and Sheffield will also be reduced by up to 20 minutes in the peak, with the train operator in the Lake District beginning work to trial an alternative-fuelled train in this World Heritage Site.

Thanks to this new technology disruptive electrification works between Cardiff and Swansea, Kettering, Nottingham and Sheffield, and between Windermere and Oxenholme, will no longer be needed.

Passengers will benefit sooner and experience less disruption compared with putting up intrusive wires and masts along routes where they are no longer required.

The government today also published the consultation for the next East Midlands franchise, which will deliver reduced journey times for intercity services and more seats for long distance passengers at peak hours, as well as dedicated services and more capacity for commuters coming into London. The franchise will maximise the benefits of the upgrade of the Midland Main Line — the biggest investment in the route since it was completed in 1870.

Transport Secretary Chris Grayling said:


“We are making the biggest investment in the railways since the Victorian era and upgrading services across the country, including in Wales, the midlands and the north.

“Passengers expect and deserve high quality rail services and we are committed to using the best available technology for each part of the network, delivering significant benefits for those who use our railways.”

Benefits along the specific routes include:

Cardiff to Swansea

From Autumn 2017, passengers in Wales will benefit from new Intercity Express trains which will each deliver over 130 extra seats, faster journey times and improved connectivity for South Wales to London with 40% more seats in the morning peak once the full fleet is in service.

Network Rail will also develop additional options to improve journeys for passengers in Wales. These will include:
•improving journeys times and connections between Swansea and Cardiff, and South Wales, Bristol and London
•improving journeys times and connections across North Wales
•direct services from Pembroke Dock to London via Carmarthen on new, state of the art Intercity Express trains
•station improvements at Cardiff Station
•station improvements in and around Swansea including looking at the case for additional provision

The Secretary of State also welcomed a proposal for Wales’ first privately funded railway station at St Mellons. The department will work with the promoters of the scheme as they develop their plans to the next stage.

The first new Intercity Express trains will enter service from this Autumn and once the whole fleet is introduced and electrification to Cardiff is complete journey times between Swansea, London and other stations along the route will be approximately 15 minutes shorter.

Midland Main Line

The next operator will be required to deliver modern, fast and efficient intercity and commuter trains, including a brand new set of bi-mode intercity trains from 2022, maximising the benefits of the largest upgrade of the Midland Main Line since it opened in 1870. This will improve journeys sooner, without the need for wires and masts on the whole route, with further investment to come to ensure Sheffield is ready for HS2.

Benefits include reducing journey times on long distance services from Nottingham and Sheffield by up to 20 minutes in the peak and delivering over 1000 additional seats an hour in the peak into London, an increase of more than 50%.

Oxenholme to Windermere

Passengers in the Lake District will benefit from 4 direct services a day in each direction between Windermere and Manchester Airport from May 2018.

The government has announced plans to ensure passengers enjoy brand new trains from December 2019. Journeys between Windermere and Manchester Airport will be improved sooner and with less disruption to services and local communities. It also means there is no need to construct intrusive wires and masts in this National Park.

Its called putting spin on austerity for the unknown cost of Bexit

Plus the diverting money into HS2, despite what HMG said a few years ago that HS2 would not be at the expense of the National network.

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Mark Carne 26 June 2015 - "The challenges of delivering myriad improvement projects while still running a railway seven days a week were simply overwhelming".
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