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Author Topic: Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion  (Read 683144 times)
willc
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« Reply #90 on: July 29, 2009, 02:07:34 pm »

I was particularly thinking of going on to Blackpool - three trains out of eight or so in two hours off-peak isn't too compelling a case - and TPEx is an obvious route to do - think of the performance bonus from electrification on the climbs to Standedge tunnel
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eightf48544
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« Reply #91 on: July 29, 2009, 02:52:14 pm »

RE Manchester Bolton Preston keep forgetting XC are DEMUs still thinking of when I took the Sussex Scot from Reading to Penrith. Wondered why 47 not changed at Coventry or New Street, forgiot it went via Stockport and  Bolton. Loco changed at Preston.

Now if XC were loco hauled a lot more lines become immediately viable.
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onthecushions
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« Reply #92 on: July 29, 2009, 07:07:34 pm »


Returning to the question of what to do when the wires end - North of Oxford and West of Newbury, the options would seem to be:

1. Diesels under the wires - unattractive on a list of criteria.

2. More intensive diesel shuttles beyond the wires - gives more services but needs a change and you only get a 165...never a Mk3.

3. Hauling the 319's to Bedwyn/Westbury or Worcester - possible with a 210 type power car, or perhaps a Voyager version, (being DEMU). Are the auto-couplers reliable enough for frequent splitting? The Southern managed with buck-eyes and manual jumpers at places like Staines and Ascot, for years.

Thoughts?

OTC
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« Reply #93 on: July 29, 2009, 08:39:37 pm »


Returning to the question of what to do when the wires end - North of Oxford and West of Newbury, the options would seem to be:

1. Diesels under the wires - unattractive on a list of criteria.

2. More intensive diesel shuttles beyond the wires - gives more services but needs a change and you only get a 165...never a Mk3.

3. Hauling the 319's to Bedwyn/Westbury or Worcester - possible with a 210 type power car, or perhaps a Voyager version, (being DEMU). Are the auto-couplers reliable enough for frequent splitting? The Southern managed with buck-eyes and manual jumpers at places like Staines and Ascot, for years.

Thoughts?

OTC


It will be option 1, option 2 is far too train and train crew intensive and option 3 will require something built and interfaced with cascaded stock.

Option 1 is simple and practical, the only risk is the through Padd to the areas past the end of the wires might end up with a reduced frequency but that may happen anyway
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Btline
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« Reply #94 on: July 29, 2009, 10:47:25 pm »

I suppose they'll be a kind of Didcot - Morteon shuttle for the southern Cotswolds using cascaded 166s, and HSTs/IEPs on the Malvern/ Herefords.
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #95 on: July 29, 2009, 10:51:08 pm »

I suppose they'll be a kind of Didcot - Morteon shuttle for the southern Cotswolds using cascaded 166s, and HSTs/IEPs on the Malvern/ Herefords.

ha ha

you and I wish

What ir probably means is HST/IEP electrics end at oxford and we get some sort of shuttle beyond - cos we aint important like
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #96 on: July 29, 2009, 10:51:51 pm »

I suppose they'll be a kind of Didcot - Morteon shuttle for the southern Cotswolds using cascaded 166s, and HSTs/IEPs on the Malvern/ Herefords.

ha ha

you and I wish

What ir probably means is HST/IEP electrics end at oxford and we get some sort of shuttle beyond - cos we aint important like

Yes I'm a scouser - hence the like

Oh sorry - I see loads of scouser jibes in the light of recent issues
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #97 on: July 29, 2009, 10:57:25 pm »

What ir probably means is HST/IEP electrics end at oxford and we get some sort of shuttle beyond - cos we aint important like

I thought that was what you were advocating as a sensible way forward a few weeks back? Apart from those trains that you use of course...  Wink
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
Mookiemoo
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« Reply #98 on: July 29, 2009, 10:58:43 pm »

What ir probably means is HST/IEP electrics end at oxford and we get some sort of shuttle beyond - cos we aint important like

I thought that was what you were advocating as a sensible way forward a few weeks back? Apart from those trains that you use of course...  Wink

No - I still think there should be peak express through trains with off peak stoppers and peak shuttles for the shacks

HOWEVER - I forsee NO through trains under electrification
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #99 on: July 29, 2009, 11:02:13 pm »

HOWEVER - I forsee NO through trains under electrification

Hmmm - I foresee you'll be returning that crystal ball back for a refund in 2017.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
Mookiemoo
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« Reply #100 on: July 29, 2009, 11:03:19 pm »

HOWEVER - I forsee NO through trains under electrification

Hmmm - I foresee you'll be returning that crystal ball back for a refund in 2017.

Hope you are right - and you may be as long as the SAS are still based at hereford
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Btline
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« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2009, 11:08:20 pm »

They'd be mad. There is a large market waiting to be tapped into. The poor London - Worcestershire/ Herefordshire road links increase this, making a 2 hour through rail journey vital for the region.

Meanwhile Chiltern just sucks up the custom. You would think the 1025 and 1100 arrivals at Marylebone to be peak services! The 1700, 1800 etc. evening departures are equally rammed - and that's even with a relief service which drops off the pre Banbury commuters! Many of these people are coming from Warwick Parkway. I wonder where a percentage of these come from?
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willc
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« Reply #102 on: July 30, 2009, 12:27:20 am »

Maybe you should all, as I said previously, read the DfT report, but I'll save you the trouble, so here's the relevant bit:

"The proposed fleet for an electrified Great Western Main Line to Swansea will include a proportion of ^bi-mode^ trains, so that destinations including Worcester, Gloucester, Cheltenham, Carmarthen and the South West
beyond Bristol continue to enjoy through trains while also gaining the benefits of electrification. These bi-mode trains have a diesel generator vehicle at one end and an electric transformer vehicle at the other end. This
allows bi-mode trains to operate ^off the wires^ to maintain through services and provide diversionary services."
Someone I spoke to on Tuesday suggested that proportion could be as high as 50 per cent.

I remain sceptical about the ability of a 10-car version to climb Campden bank, or get over the Malverns on diesel power in the same time as an HST, while having just one engine, but 2X5 cars, with two diesels, like a certain train we all know, shouldn't have any trouble.

Why on earth do you think they would return to turfing everyone out at Oxford? Though of course that's okay for those of us living at the 'shacks' that actually produce the revenue to pay for Worcester's services, however slow they are. You don't put in ^62m - and probably more once they've finished - redoubling a route and then chuck that investment away.

Please spare us the paranoia and stick to complaining about journey times and telling us how great Chiltern is - that way, we all know where we stand. And if a fast service is so vital for Worcester, why were you having a go at people from Plymouth wanting the same for their considerably larger city?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 12:33:08 am by willc » Logged
6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
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« Reply #103 on: July 30, 2009, 12:50:52 am »

i find this interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFg0EOUJNrc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk%2FContent%2FDetail.asp%3FReleaseID%3D4549%26NewsAreaID%3D2%26SearchCategoryID%3D2&feature=player_embedded
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #104 on: July 30, 2009, 02:00:00 am »

Maybe you should all, as I said previously, read the DfT report ...

To be fair, willc, the link posted originally by RailCornwall on this topic no longer works (due to some belated tinkering by someone at the DfT, no doubt?)  Roll Eyes

However, as I write, this link does work - http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/rail-electrification.pdf  Wink Cheesy Grin
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