Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Electric train]

NR^» (Network Rail - home page)'s self financing of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification is reliant on two things cascaded Thameslink 319's  and the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), Coucher has said in Railnews that GWML only has a low per kM rate if the whole route to Swansea is done.  The cascade of 319's is under threat because the procurement of the second tranche of new Thameslink stock is frozen and the IEP is also frozen and is subject to review.

[inspector_blakey]

As various industry bigwigs and journalists have pointed out, the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) becomes more or less pointless in the wake of GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification because there then won't be a need to replace a bulk fleet of intercity diesel trains. The majority of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) could ultimately be replaced using variations on "out of the box" designs like the Pendo or Javelin, rather than the bizarre fleet of over-specified IEP trains that was proposed.

Must say the IEPs have always reminded me of a Mitchell and Webb sketch, where a customer walks into a shop and gives his requirements for a suit jacket. The aloof shop assistant replies "A business suit that is also a dinner suit, which is also a tailcoat and a pair of pyjamas... [and then on hearing the customer's budget] ...which is fashioned from sackcloth and string"!

[Electric train]

As various industry bigwigs and journalists have pointed out, the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) becomes more or less pointless in the wake of GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification because there then won't be a need to replace a bulk fleet of intercity diesel trains. The majority of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) could ultimately be replaced using variations on "out of the box" designs like the Pendo or Javelin, rather than the bizarre fleet of over-specified IEP trains that was proposed.

Must say the IEPs have always reminded me of a Mitchell and Webb sketch, where a customer walks into a shop and gives his requirements for a suit jacket. The aloof shop assistant replies "A business suit that is also a dinner suit, which is also a tailcoat and a pair of pyjamas... [and then on hearing the customer's budget] ...which is fashioned from sackcloth and string"!

Absolutely 

The GWML given is extremely good build by Brunel would suit the Javelin trains with a better internal fit out than the SE Trains have, not much need for Pendo's.  The West Country would be best served as now with HST's or a modern diesel only replacement

[paul7575]

Whatever happens, for goodness sake let's get Crossrail extended to Reading!

And run all the HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) services non-stop through Reading to make people use Crossrail? 

(I appreciate that comment may be a repeat...) 

Paul

[Mookiemoo]

Whatever happens, for goodness sake let's get Crossrail extended to Reading!

And run all the HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) services non-stop through Reading to make people use Crossrail? 

(I appreciate that comment may be a repeat...) 

Paul

What happens if you are AT Reading and need one of those HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s

[Btline]

I know - wasn't the plan for some IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) to run Northampton - London express commuter trains?

[eightf48544]

You could have HS^▸ (High Speed (short for HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) speed trains that pick up only at Reading on their outward run and set down only on the inward.

But you need some pretty agile TMs^‡(resolve) to get through the train and surcharge all the people with Reading Padd tickets.

In a way i wish Crossrail wasn't around because it detracts from the obvious solution of wires to Plymouth (at least and Swansea all routes (i.e Berks Hants, Westbury to Taunton and Bristol, Bristol Taunton, Swindon Trowbridge and North curve Bradford and Swindon Gloucester Newport. Through trains to be  West of Plymouth and Swanswea to be loco hauled with change of loco at end of the wires.

Linking as Crossrail does in the East with already electrified mainlines there seems to me to be no reason why you couldn't run a Bristol Norwich IC^▸ (Inter City) stoping Reading Padd inner London Crossrail and then Chelmsford or Colchester first stop on GE. Or with a dual voltage set what about Oxford Canterbury/Dover.

With fill in electrification through to Salisbury and Southampton? Eastleigh. Virtually all FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services could be electric.

The trouble is we've got no Brunels in this country being ruled by bean counters and pratitioners of the dismal art who have absolutely no imagination. Most of Brunels projects overspent by very large sums but look at legacy he left behind.

[woody]

THE chances of electrification of the Great Western Main Line and several key routes in the north west in the foreseeable future appear to have dwindled to almost zero. The House of Lords has been told that the national financial situation poses difficulties.
http://www.railnews.co.uk/news/general/2010/06/16-electrification-looking-increasingly-unlikely-soon.html
 Also I think Angel and Porterbrook has been asked to price two options to life extend the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to 2025 and 2035 and that is where I think we are going on this one personally.

[John R]

The only crumb of comfort is that electrification wasn't included as part of today's announcement about the hit list of projects cancelled or under review. Though there's a steady drip feed of announcements at the moment, so probably best not to read too much into it.

[paul7575]

The only crumb of comfort is that electrification wasn't included as part of today's announcement about the hit list of projects cancelled or under review. Though there's a steady drip feed of announcements at the moment, so probably best not to read too much into it.

Today's list is all post Jan 2010 'electioneering announcements' according to most reports. Comparable with the ^50m for marginal constituencies, nearly all in the NW, oops, should have said station improvements...   

Paul

[inspector_blakey]

I'm getting increasingly annoyed about this. Why the hell does the ^657 bazillion* that will be necessary to build the thoroughly pointless HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) seem to be ring-fenced and sacrosanct, when projects that will benefit far more people like GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification (and at a much more modest cost) are being cut? Do we really need a new high-speed London-Birmingham line at the moment? No!

For heaven's sake just ditch HS2 (or at least put it on the back burner until the country can actually afford it). Another one of my stretched analogies, but it's rather like this situation: your current, modest car is falling to bits, but you're not going to spend money upgrading it. Instead you're going to let it continue disintegrating whilst spend several times the cost of repairing is purchasing a top of the range Porsche which will be delivered in ten years' time. The only problem is that it won't actually have much of a range, or take you to any of the places you actually want to go. Aaaaaarrrrrrgh! 

_{*possibly not strictly accurate but I lose track every now and again}

[woody]

I agree with Inspector Blakey its really bazarre when all you here from the new coalition government is every project rail and non rail is under review including Great Western Electrification and new trains,everything that is except HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)).

[devon_metro]

Agreed, HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) is a waste of time.

I think it's more a case of political point scoring and not going back on election promises, I believe all 3 major parties had committed to HS2.

[Timmer]

Totally agree with all that has been said about HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)). Waste of money when the rest of the network needs investment.

[Electric train]

GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification is about now therefore about committing money now, HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) is still a pencil line on a map is years away from any major money so a Government can back it.

Also in 4 years time on the work up to the next general election the ConDem or is it LibTory can wave a big banner and say ain't good we are building a new railway.

If only you all knew how close GWM electrification is / was to be being a reality you would spit feathers