Bristol tram plan may replace bendy buses plan (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[standclearplease]

So are these proper rail based trams, or trams that can run on the road and rails?

[JayMac]

Eh?

[anthony215]

So are these proper rail based trams, or trams that can run on the road and rails?

Do you mean something like the parry people movers?. If I am correct these vehicles are lighter than normal trams meaning that the railways can just be put down along the road and dont require stuff like telephone cable to be diverted

[standclearplease]

Ah, I see. Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree. I remember them on the harbour side in Bristol.

They aren't pretty!

[anthony215]

Just found this on the Bristol Evening post's website:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/NEW-TRAM-VISION-FUTURE/article-3517420-detail/article.html


Good idea in theory, i would like it to come off but i have my doubts. As for the trams themselves, the only company i can think of are parry people mover, although is there that company called trampower?

[eightf48544]

Maybe the Coffee Shop should club together to send Bristol Council to Karlsruhe, Kassel and Nordhausen to see proper tram/trains in operation.

Trams through the town centre at 600 DV and running out on DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about)/HSB lines sharing with other trains. Karlsruhe trams are dual voltage, Kassel has both dual voltage and EDs whilst Norhausen is ED and metre gauge.
   
Karlsruhr trams cross the main lines on the level at Heilbronn, I've also had a steam run up a Karlsruhe tram line.

Trams in Kassel operate through Wilhelmshohe (equivalent to Temple Meads) which is the through station on the North South High Speed line with ICE/DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) and freight traffic.

Nordhausen ED trams share the line with 1897 Mallets, 1956 2-10-2Ts on 8 coach passenger trains, DMUs and 500 t freight trains of standard gauge bogie hopper wagons on rollboks.

Therefore, there are NO TECHNICAL or SAFETY Reasons  why properly built tram/trains cannot share heavy rail lines with different traffic mixes and also run  on the street through the town centre.

So Bristol Portishead 25KV to Temple Meads with a loop through docks to town center 600 DC^▸ (Direct Current). Temple Meads to Severn Beach, Parkway (via bank and Avonmouth) Yate and Thyerington 25Kv.

Town centre loop to join somewhere on the bank and possibly take over the old Midland line to Yate.

 

[paul7575]

Sunderland to Pelaw on the Tyne Wear Metro sees lightweight units of similar build quality to trams operating together with heavy rail passenger and freight.

There's no need for the expense of a trip to Germany IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), the fact that the Metro has no street running is surely irrelevant to the main question which is about safety on the shared tracks...

Unless people have an issue with a class 66 being let loose down the local high street accidentally... 

Paul

[anthony215]

Would be interesting to see a class 66  running along a tramline through Bristol

[Chris from Nailsea]

A video news report, from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Trams plan unveiled for Bristol harbour

Plans have been unveiled for a pioneering tram system in Bristol which its backers have said will help cut congestion on the city's roads.

It would use ultra-light trams which campaigners say are cheaper and cleaner than buses.

[eightf48544]

Would be interesting to see a class 66  running along a tramline through Bristol

You get standard gauge Stadler units running down dual gauge (3 rails metre standard) tram lines in Zwicau.

I understand they have special wheel profiles to cope with the different rails.

[anthony215]

Just seen this in the evening post:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/home

seems these are ex london. I wonder how long before 1 decides to go up in flames in Bristol. Then again i hope they dont and maybe no CT plus will give first some competition in Bristol

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Bristol Post:

Plans in place for bendy bus stop outside station

Fears Bristol's proposed ^50 million bendy bus route will fail to adequately serve passengers at Temple Meads railway station have been eased.

A public inquiry into the much-criticised project yesterday heard plans were being drawn up to ensure buses travelling on the route between the city centre and Ashton Vale would stop directly outside the station.

One of transport campaigners' main objections to the guided bus route, known as a Bus Rapid Transit (BRT^▸ (Bus Rapid Transit)) system, was its lack of a dedicated bus stop serving the station. They complained that the proposed stop for Temple Meads was located 400m away and across the Temple Way dual carriageway at Temple Circus roundabout.

But at the public inquiry, which will decide the fate of the Government-backed project, it was announced plans are in place to move the stop to outside the Old Passenger Shed in Friary, Temple Quay.

Under the plans, buses would travel along Friary and back again to reach the passenger shed, which could house the station's new entrance when it is turned into a terminus for services using the planned high-speed electric train service to and from London.

Speaking at the inquiry at Armada House in Bristol city centre, the city council's service manager for major projects Bob Fowler said another option would be for buses to go along Friary, past the Wetherspoons pub in Temple Quay, along Temple Back East and back onto Temple Way.

But Mr Fowler told the hearing that the plans to locate the stop in Temple Circus may have to go ahead regardless, because the other proposals to have a closer stop had not been agreed. He said they were part of negotiations over the creation of a new transport hub on a piece of land next to Temple Meads called Plot 6.

Mr Fowler said the plans for a bus stop in Friary "were still the ambition of the project". He admitted that the Temple Circus stop would involve passengers having to cross at two crossings to reach Temple Meads.

On Tuesday, objector Sue Flint, of Transport for Greater Bristol Alliance, told the inquiry the BRT route was "not a good example of connectivity" because it failed to serve the city's main railway station. She said: "The bus stop isn't near Temple Meads. It will require passengers to walk over a number of road junctions to reach the station and the Enterprise Zone."

At yesterday's hearing, Mr Fowler said the city could take confidence from the success of a BRT route recently set up in Cambridge. But he conceded that creating the guided busway in Bristol would lead to the loss of many on-street car parking spaces in Cumberland Road.

The inquiry, which is being heard because objections were made against the plans, started on Tuesday and is set to last six weeks. The route involves buses travelling on the road as well as on sections of guided concrete track from 2015. It is not clear whether bendy buses, double deckers, or other vehicles will be used.

[TonyK]

If Brunel was alive today, I wonder what he would do?

He would be turning in his grave!

To bring this up to date:
BCC^» (Bristol City Council - about) seem so wedded to the Bus Rabid Transit idea, that they will rubbish anything else. The other partners in West of English Partnership don't much care what happens in Bristol.
We have already got Boris's buses, running the park and ride routes. They hold a lot more passengers than a double decker, and empty / fill more quickly.
WEP spent ^1m on the Public Inquiry into the BRT^▸ (Bus Rapid Transit) route from Ashton Gate to Temple Meads. The opposition group spent ^12,000 and managed to rubbish the business case.
The housing development that the BRT would serve by Long Ashton is not going ahead.
Portishead railway is now a very strong likelihood. This will cut the number of people using the LA park and ride considerably.
"Taking confidence from the success of Cambridge" is a bit rich. That opened 3 years late at almost thrice the price. The council there have earmarked millions to fund the legal battle against the contractors that seems inevitable.
I haven't heard anyone say that ripping up a rail route for this glorified bus lane is a good idea. So much has been spent on bus projects in Bristol, with very little modal change, that we could have spent on real transport. The Severn Beach line shows what can be done to railways with just a little imagination.[/rant over]

[bobm]

I think he would be frustrated by all the "hoops" new schemes have to jump through before seeing the light of day.

[chuffed]

Bristol 'bendy bus' plan scrapped from BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) BRistol website

Plans to run bendy buses on the proposed "rapid transit" routes through Bristol have been scrapped.

The Liberal Democrat-run authority said it will now look at using longer single decker buses with multiple doors to allow passengers quick entry and exit.

Deputy leader Jon Rogers said it was part of a package of "radical changes" being proposed for the bus project.

"These buses will cost less and allow us to put more of them on and increase frequencies on our routes," he said.

He added the authority also planned to bring the new buses directly into Bristol Temple Meads railway station instead of them stopping on the nearby roundabout.