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Author Topic: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion  (Read 393792 times)
Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #570 on: May 20, 2014, 23:55:58 »

From the Falmouth Packet:

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MP (Member of Parliament) urges Government over 'Train Care Centre' for Penzance

Andrew George MP says he is urging the Secretary of State for Transport to get behind a Cornish bid for rail investment.

Cornwall Council has been working alongside First Great Western, Network Rail and the Department for Transport on plans to upgrade the Sleeper Service and provide a new Train Care Centre in Penzance, which will include more than 50 jobs.

A private exhibition in Westminster was held on Thursday, May 8, to highlight the proposals, with the Transport Secretary, Patrick McLoughlin MP, attending the event.

Mr George said: ^The least any Government can do is give Cornwall a fraction of the multi billion pound transport investment going into wealthy London and the South East.

"With ^17 billion for Crossrail through London and another ^50 billion for HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) from London to the north if our services don^t get any investment the Penzance to Paddington service will look like a branch line.

^This is an excellent bid and the least that the Government can do. This is especially excellent news for Penzance as it places it at the fulcrum of the service.

^I have been involved in many discussions as this proposal has developed in recent months. I^m delighted that we have this opportunity to reinforce the message to the Transport Secretary today. What we need now is for the Government to get behind Cornwall^s rail bid.^
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« Reply #571 on: June 05, 2014, 11:42:50 »

Royal Mail's view on HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) as reported in Post & Parcel.

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Royal Mail has raised concerns over the route of the UK (United Kingdom) government^s controversial High Speed Rail project, which proposes a major new transport route from London to the North of England.
 
HS2, as the ^43bn project is known, is the subject of a bill currently going through the House of Commons. It proposes a high-speed rail link between London^s Euston station and the city of Birmingham, with a second phase running up to Manchester and Leeds. Construction is slated to start in 2017, with the first phase open in 2016 and the second in 2032.
 
The project is already resulting in mail company UK Mail Group moving its headquarters and central hub to Coventry, out of the path of the planned rail link.
 
Royal Mail Group backs the HS2 project in principle, and wants to work with the government to support the project.
 
But, last month the company signed up to a Commons petition opposing the project as it is currently planned.
 
The newly-privatised universal postal operator said in a statement issued through London-based lawyers Bircham Dyson Bell LLP that it has various sites that would be directly affected by the construction of the HS2 project.
 
The company said three major delivery offices covering a ^very substantial^ part of London would be subject of compulsory purchase orders, along with the Greenford Mail Centre in the London Borough of Ealing and the Castle Bromwich Delivery Office in Birmingham.
 
The Greenford Parcel Sort Centre, a leased building, would also be affected by the rail project, and represents a key part of Royal Mail^s operations during the pre-Christmas peak parcel season, handling 15m parcels in November and December.
 
Royal Mail said that without sufficient mitigation measures, it would not be able to carry out its statutory duty to deliver the mail if the HS2 project goes ahead in current form.
 
^The proposed works will affect much of your Petitioners^ operational property necessary for the collection and delivery of mail over major parts of London and Birmingham,^ the company warned.
 
^The performance by your Petitioners of their statutory duties is also dependent upon road transport within the areas of the works proposed in the Bill. Your Petitioners are greatly concerned that, without adequate protection and mitigation, the disruption to the road transport network caused by the proposed works may result in your Petitioners being unable to fulfill their statutory duties.^
 
Royal Mail added in the petition submission that it would be prepared to prove that its property, rights and interests are ^injuriously and prejudicially affected^ by the HS2 project.
 
Compulsory purchases
 
The company said even if it is not forced to hand over sites under compulsory purchase orders, construction and tunneling in the vicinity could cause ^significant loss and damage^ to its business.
 
The loss of the Camden Delivery Office to a compulsory purchase order would cause a particular headache, Royal Mail said, because similar sites ^are not generally available^ in North London. Talks with the HS2 project managers are ongoing, Royal Mail said, but the mail company has failed to identify an alternative site, and said that it would not vacate its current delivery office unless an alternative site is found, even under a compulsory purchase order.
 
Royal Mail^s submission also complained that proposed compensation for the loss of its sites was not sufficient.
 
^Unless the Bill is amended as proposed above,^ the company concluded, ^the Bill should not be allowed to pass into law.^
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lordgoata
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« Reply #572 on: June 05, 2014, 12:20:59 »

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Construction is slated to start in 2017, with the first phase open in 2016 and the second in 2032

Ah! That explains it. Most of the ^43bn is being spent on a time machine.
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TonyK
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« Reply #573 on: June 05, 2014, 21:15:05 »

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Construction is slated to start in 2017, with the first phase open in 2016 and the second in 2032

Ah! That explains it. Most of the ^43bn is being spent on a time machine.

I'm not surprised, I've spent millions on my time machine. It's not working now, although it was fine next month.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #574 on: June 05, 2014, 22:01:13 »

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Construction is slated to start in 2017, with the first phase open in 2016 and the second in 2032

Ah! That explains it. Most of the ^43bn is being spent on a time machine.

I'm not surprised, I've spent millions on my time machine. It's not working now, although it was fine next month.

...and that explains why you style yourself 'Four Track, Now!'

The Tralfamadorians never suffer from such confusion...
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eightf48544
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« Reply #575 on: October 17, 2014, 11:34:13 »

There is warning that this thread has not been posted in for 120 days but I heard something this morning on The today programme that HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) are looking to start issuing I presumme tenders for various construction contracts. The interviewer i think JH asked why if it's not been approved by parliament. I think it Kirby the MD replied tha wanted to have eveything lined up and ready to go when approval was given.

I still have three main objections to the HS2 proposal, not the concept but the three terminal staions in Birmingham. Manchester and Leeds in my opinion these should be through staions connected to the mainnetwork and enable through trains off HS2 to serve Wolverhampton, Preston and York for example. by linking across Birminham, Manchester and Leeds.
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« Reply #576 on: October 18, 2014, 00:09:59 »

I still have three main objections to the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) proposal, not the concept but the three terminal staions in Birmingham. Manchester and Leeds in my opinion these should be through staions connected to the mainnetwork and enable through trains off HS2 to serve Wolverhampton, Preston and York for example. by linking across Birminham, Manchester and Leeds.
I agree with you, Birmingham in particular (and I'm not sure about the Leeds spur at all). If tunnelling out the other side of Birmingham, as my map shows is 'too difficult' then I think it might be better to forget both the Leeds and Birmingham spurs and just go to Manchester, with some of the released WCML (West Coast Main Line) capacity used for more-frequent Pendolinos through Birmingham New Street. I think the same station site in central Birmingham looks ok, just sink it into a cutting with a tunnel portal leading through to Manchester with a branch off that, once the line's emerged from the tunnel, to join the classic lines to Wolverhampton.
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« Reply #577 on: October 18, 2014, 08:35:57 »

I still have three main objections to the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) proposal, not the concept but the three terminal staions in Birmingham. Manchester and Leeds in my opinion these should be through staions connected to the mainnetwork and enable through trains off HS2 to serve Wolverhampton, Preston and York for example. by linking across Birminham, Manchester and Leeds.

There is a misconception that HS2 will only serve Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds when in fact HS2 will be providing the route for Glasgow, Preston, there are other destinations off of the traditional WCML (West Coast Main Line).  HS2 must be viewed as the UK (United Kingdom) railways version of a motorway; HS2 principle task is to provide capacity to relive congestion on the Southern end of the WCML, MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) and ECML (East Coast Main Line), this freed up capacity will then allow the freed up capacity to run more trains, also to reduce journey time to Glasgow etc.

The NR» (Network Rail - home page) "on networks" enabling has commenced already in certain locations
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eightf48544
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« Reply #578 on: October 18, 2014, 10:33:40 »

Agreed it can serve places on the WCML (West Coast Main Line) North of Manchester, but my point it doesn't give not give  station interchange in Birmingham Manchester and Leeds all of which have thriving suburban services. So if I lived in Bourneville or Sutton Coldfield I would probably still  travel via New Street and catch a WCML pendelino rather than waste most of the time saving walking to Curzon Street.

Unfortunately, we are still suffering from the Railway Mania of the 1850s with multiple unlinked stations in our big cities rather than the single  strategically planned Hauptbanhofs as in Grmany. New terminal stations on HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) add to the problem of providing a fully linked rail network.

I have a short piece of video of an ICE and IC (Inter City) (to different destinations) entering Mannheim station in parallel, with the IC actually overtaking the ICE, but both stopping either side of the same platform. It  happens most hours. Now that's what should happen with HS2 with other trains having cross platform interchange in Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.

I have no objection to building a high speed spine to the North initially and maybe even to the West, it's far less obstrusive than a 6 or 8 lane motorway, both visually and aurally so long as it links to the conventional network and serves the existing stations plus takes freight at night.
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ellendune
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« Reply #579 on: October 18, 2014, 11:44:00 »

Agreed it can serve places on the WCML (West Coast Main Line) North of Manchester, but my point it doesn't give not give  station interchange in Birmingham Manchester and Leeds all of which have thriving suburban services. So if I lived in Bourneville or Sutton Coldfield I would probably still  travel via New Street and catch a WCML pendelino rather than waste most of the time saving walking to Curzon Street.

As far as Manchester is concerned the new station will be immediately adjoining Piccadilly. Indeed it will be closer to the existing concourse than the through platforms. This then has excellent links to the tram system which gives access to Victoria. 

As far as Birmingham is concerned the concourse of the new station will be immediately next to Moor Street Station.  The redevelopment of New Street includes a direct walking route to Moor Street which could be improved to give a moving walkway (it is only 5 minutes walk anyway - not much further than the route to the through platforms at Manchester Piccadilly).  After all the distance to New Street along the new route is still only less than an HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) platform length!

Note: if you ask Google for a walking route from New Street to Moor Street it says 8 minutes by the current circuitous route (which is better than the 15 minute route it used to give).

As for Leeds the distance from the concourse to the South Entrance of Leeds Station is less than 1/2 a platform length away, so with a moving walkway what is the problem?

« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 11:49:50 by ellendune » Logged
Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #580 on: October 25, 2014, 19:34:20 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)): Phase two report proposes new station for Crewe


An artist's impression shows how the proposed station in Crewe would look

A report into the route of the second phase of the controversial fast train project HS2 is expected to recommend a new station be built in Crewe.

It means a bid by council leaders for Stoke to be included on the line is likely to be rejected.

Monday's announcement is set to recommend sticking with a plan to split the line in two after the London to Birmingham stage opens in 2026.

HS2 will then be extended to Manchester and to Leeds via Sheffield by 2032.

The scheme's boss, Sir David Higgins, has spent months looking at whether the government has got the right route for the second phase of HS2 in the north of England.

The government's earmarked route for the western branch of the second phase of HS2 - which will see trains will travel at 225 mph (362km/h) - ran through Crewe.

The initial plans suggested HS2 would connect with the West Coast Main Line south of Crewe, before continuing in a tunnel under the town heading north.

But both Crewe and Stoke launched business cases for new stations to be built.

The Crewe option proposed an out-of-town station while Stoke offered a city centre station linking up to its university quarter.

Stoke council had suggested its route was greener and cheaper and would deliver benefits to more people.

Another station between Derby and Nottingham may also have to be moved to a slightly different location, said our correspondent.

Construction on the ^50bn HS2 project is due to start in 2017.

Objectors to HS2 have said the scheme will cause an unacceptable level of environmental damage, loss of homes and disruption to many communities.

But in January the Supreme Court rejected a legal bid to force further scrutiny of the first stage of the government's plans.

Alongside HS2, Sir David's report will also update the government on what has been dubbed HS3 - a plan to speed up existing services between Leeds and Manchester. He has long warned that poor transport is throttling growth across northern England.
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"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #581 on: October 26, 2014, 07:43:17 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)): Phase two report proposes new station for Crewe


An artist's impression shows how the proposed station in Crewe would look

A report into the route of the second phase of the controversial fast train project HS2 is expected to recommend a new station be built in Crewe.

It means a bid by council leaders for Stoke to be included on the line is likely to be rejected.

Monday's announcement is set to recommend sticking with a plan to split the line in two after the London to Birmingham stage opens in 2026.

HS2 will then be extended to Manchester and to Leeds via Sheffield by 2032.

The scheme's boss, Sir David Higgins, has spent months looking at whether the government has got the right route for the second phase of HS2 in the north of England.

The government's earmarked route for the western branch of the second phase of HS2 - which will see trains will travel at 225 mph (362km/h) - ran through Crewe.

The initial plans suggested HS2 would connect with the West Coast Main Line south of Crewe, before continuing in a tunnel under the town heading north.

But both Crewe and Stoke launched business cases for new stations to be built.

The Crewe option proposed an out-of-town station while Stoke offered a city centre station linking up to its university quarter.

Stoke council had suggested its route was greener and cheaper and would deliver benefits to more people.

Another station between Derby and Nottingham may also have to be moved to a slightly different location, said our correspondent.

Construction on the ^50bn HS2 project is due to start in 2017.

Objectors to HS2 have said the scheme will cause an unacceptable level of environmental damage, loss of homes and disruption to many communities.

But in January the Supreme Court rejected a legal bid to force further scrutiny of the first stage of the government's plans.

Alongside HS2, Sir David's report will also update the government on what has been dubbed HS3 - a plan to speed up existing services between Leeds and Manchester. He has long warned that poor transport is throttling growth across northern England.

Now this what HS2 is truly about, spine and hub.  This is how HS2 will free up capacity on the existing network
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« Reply #582 on: October 26, 2014, 08:39:04 »

And the site at Crewe certainly has the space for something like this on railway land.  I note the separation of WCML (West Coast Main Line) and Regional services.  At present the line from Stoke & Derby comes into a bay platform to the East of the station, see no reason to change this - would be alot of engineering for very little benefit as no through trains - unless it is needed fro freight. 
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« Reply #583 on: October 26, 2014, 11:13:15 »

Not sure I understand where the new station will be presuambly South of the old.

So   what happens to the Derby trains as Mentioned by ellendune. Don't foget this line was only electrified from Kidsgrove to Crewe relatively recently and can be used as divisonary troute for Manchester and other WCML (West Coast Main Line) trains depending on where the dsiruption is. What about the Manchester to Shrewsbury Wales trains will they have to reverse?

What happens to the current station?

Possibly a case of HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) not providing prper connectivity with the exisitng network. By which I mean it should be possible to catch a train from any existing station which has a service stopping at Crewe and change onto HS2 at Crewe.

Can understand why Stoke is miffed!
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« Reply #584 on: October 26, 2014, 11:24:13 »

Not sure I understand where the new station will be presuambly South of the old.


Maybe it's just a complete rebuild (like Reading) to accommodate HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)). Given connectivity at Crewe, it does seem a better option than Stoke.
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