TonyK
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Posts: 6438
The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #645 on: July 18, 2017, 09:15:25 » |
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I am not against building a high speed line but I have several reservations about the current plans.
Top speed 360 kph seems unnecessarily high and require more robust infrastructure and with the much shorter distance the higher speed amounts to only a few minutes faster journey. I am also not against HS2▸ . The line is primarily about capacity. As we need to build it, we may as well make it high speed to future proof it. That is my understanding of the logic. I like the link through Sheffield and the connections to the WCML▸ to give through trains to Stafford Crewe Liverpool even Blackpool! Hurray! I may get to ride on it yet! Electrification between Preston and Blackpool North is going on apace, unlike in sleepy Bristol, as my recent rail journeys to visit Mum have revealed. However I think the terminal station in Birmingham is a White Elephant, difficult to get to. If I lived in the West Midlands and used a train to get to New Street am I going to go to New Street walk to Curzon Street to save a few minutes to London when I can change at New Street save the walk still arrive in Euston. I assume that there will be an extension to Birmingham's excellent tram network to connect Curzon Street? I find myself changing trains at least twice monthly at New Street, and it looks pretty full to me. Birmingham should have had a through station under New Street connecting by tunnel with the existing Network. if they can tunnel through the Chilterns then it should be possible to tunnel under the Balk Country. Billiards and snooker are indeed popular here! As to the low-level New Street station idea, it's a good one, so good that I would imagine it has been looked into and, for one reason or another, discounted. The terminal stations in Manchester and Leeds are not quite as bad as they are closer to the main station. Manchester Mayfield station is still there, right next to Piccadilly and the Ordsall Chord, although HS2 will probably see it demolished to build offices etc to take advantage of the stimulus to the local economy that will come with HS2. |
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Now, please!
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #646 on: July 18, 2017, 09:23:28 » |
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However I think the terminal station in Birmingham is a White Elephant, difficult to get to. If I lived in teh West Midalsnd and used a train to get to New Street am I going to go to New Street walk to Curzon Street to save a few minutes to London when I can change at New Street save the walk still arrive in Euston.
Birmingham should have had a through station under New Street connecting by tunnel with the existing Network. if they can tunnel through the Chilterns then it should be possible to tunnel under the Balk Country.
I also think a through station at Birmingham would also have been very desirable, rather than the Curzon Street terminus, but Curzon Street will be served by extensions to the Midland Metro which is expanding quite considerably over the next ten years and will act as a feeder from many parts of Birmingham (including New Street itself) as well as local buses from other areas. Then of course you've got Moor Street which is right by Curzon Street and I think it's very likely that it will see additional trains routed to it as a result of the HS2▸ station opening. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #647 on: July 18, 2017, 10:16:16 » |
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...and the station build shortlist has been issued today (18/07/2017): https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-reveals-station-design-and-euston-master-development-partner-shortlistsHS2▸ Ltd announces the station design contracts shortlists for London and Birmingham and for the long-term development around Euston station.
High Speed Two (HS2) Ltd today revealed the designers and engineers in the running for the prestigious station design contracts for London and Birmingham as well as a partner to take forward long-term development around Euston station.
The winning designers will work with HS2 Ltd to develop and refine the detailed plans for three brand new stations, at Birmingham Curzon Street, Birmingham Interchange and London’s Old Oak Common, as well as a major expansion of London Euston.
The shortlists for the station design contracts include, Arup, Mott MacDonald, WSP, Arcadis and a Jacobs/BuroHappold/Idom joint venture. All the bidders have been invited to tender for at least two station packages.
The stations will welcome tens of thousands of passengers every day from all over the UK▸ , providing easy and accessible onward connections to local transport, airports and connecting rail services as well as step-free access from street to seat. In total more than 170,000 new jobs are expected to be created in the wider development areas surrounding the four stations.
HS2 Ltd Chief Executive, Mark Thurston said:
Today’s announcements are a major milestone for the project, setting the scene for the next stage of the station design process. Together with the successful bidders, we will go on to deliver one of HS2’s most tangible legacies - three brand new stations and the long-term transformation of Euston.
All four projects represent exciting opportunities to showcase the very best in engineering and design while also delivering value for money.
We are looking for partners to help us deliver stations which not only provide unparalleled levels of accessibility, ease and convenience for our passengers, but who will work with local communities to ensure we also help unlock wider regeneration, new jobs, homes and opportunities.
HS2 Ltd today also published the names of the bidders in the running to win the Euston Master Development Partner contract. The winner will advise on, and later take forward, sustainable mixed-use development opportunities, including new homes, offices and retail space above and around the revamped London Euston. This includes working with HS2 Ltd, Network Rail, the station design contract winner and local authorities to deliver a unified masterplan to unlock the full potential of the area.
The following bidders have been shortlisted and invited to participate in dialogue:
Westfield Europe Ltd
Euston Regeneration Partnership (Led by Argent Related Services LLP)
Canary Wharf Group
Land Securities Property Holdings Limited
Lendlease Europe Holdings Limited
This comprehensive approach has the potential to deliver up to 22 hectares of development space as well as improving accessibility and creating new public and green spaces across the wider Euston site.
Managing Director, Network Rail Property, David Biggs, said:
This brings us another step closer to realising an exciting and vibrant new district in the heart of London.
The opportunities are vast. A regenerated Euston Station not only affords us the ability to improve connectivity and exceed the expectations of those travelling by train. It also allows us the rare chance to create new space for homes and businesses, to craft a desirable destination for people to live, work and meet.
The new station can be a catalyst for local regeneration and increase connection across the local community, bringing huge benefits both to the area itself as well as the country as a whole.
Contracts for the station designs and the Euston Master Development Partner will be awarded early next year. |
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paul7575
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« Reply #648 on: July 18, 2017, 10:38:50 » |
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A through station for Birmingham was definitely considered, analysed and determined to be unbuildable. A tunnel is possible, but building a suitable sized station box fully underground, complete with all the passenger handling facilities, would have been completely unaffordable under an existing city centre site. Where is Birmingham Interchange is it served by the exising railway?
It will be near the M42/M6 junction and the NEC» . Massive additional carparks. AIUI▸ it will be connected to Birmingham International by some sort of rapid transit system. Paul |
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« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 11:14:34 by paul7755 »
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John R
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« Reply #649 on: July 18, 2017, 11:08:18 » |
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A through station for Birmingham was definitely considered, analysed and determined to be unbuildable. A tunnel is possible, but building a suitable sized station box fully underground, complete with all the passenger handling facilities, would have been completely unaffordable under an existing city centre site.
An earlier question about Birmingham Interchange, it will be near the M42/M6 junction and the NEC» .
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paul7575
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« Reply #650 on: July 18, 2017, 11:15:41 » |
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...completely unaffordable...
Fixed, thanks. |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #651 on: August 03, 2017, 14:05:06 » |
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However I think the terminal station in Birmingham is a White Elephant, difficult to get to. If I lived in teh West Midalsnd and used a train to get to New Street am I going to go to New Street walk to Curzon Street to save a few minutes to London when I can change at New Street save the walk still arrive in Euston.
Birmingham should have had a through station under New Street connecting by tunnel with the existing Network. if they can tunnel through the Chilterns then it should be possible to tunnel under the Balk Country.
I also think a through station at Birmingham would also have been very desirable, rather than the Curzon Street terminus, but Curzon Street will be served by extensions to the Midland Metro which is expanding quite considerably over the next ten years and will act as a feeder from many parts of Birmingham (including New Street itself) as well as local buses from other areas. Trains to/from EUS will be downgraded in terms of service calling patterns - they will stop at more stations with possibly fewer tph as fewer pax will travel from the West Midlands, preferring HS2▸ , so more stops to ensure few empty seats. You can *walk* from BHM to Curzon Street in 10mins - Moor Street is around 7-8mins. By the time you've waited for a tram, and the tram reaches Curzon Street, you'd have walked it. |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #652 on: August 03, 2017, 16:26:17 » |
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Yes the walk will no doubt suit some people nicely, though of course walking won't be suitable for all so
it's important to have the tram connection.
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Electric train
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« Reply #653 on: August 03, 2017, 21:53:03 » |
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Whilst Curzon St will be the Brum city point for HS2▸ , it has the be remembered HS2 is not just a point to point line. The way SE Trains uses HS1▸ is possibly the best UK▸ example, trains run fast on the high speed line to a station (like Curzon St) and the go forward perhaps on conventional lines to other stations like Derby or on another part of the high speed network, this is the way the high speed lines work in Europe
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #654 on: August 06, 2017, 10:05:00 » |
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Whilst Curzon St will be the Brum city point for HS2▸ , it has the be remembered HS2 is not just a point to point line. The way SE Trains uses HS1▸ is possibly the best UK▸ example, trains run fast on the high speed line to a station (like Curzon St) and the go forward perhaps on conventional lines to other stations like Derby or on another part of the high speed network, this is the way the high speed lines work in Europe HS1 and HS2 are very different in that HS1 only has one terminal station; on HS2 trains to Curzon Street won't be able to 'go forward' as you put it because continuing forwards will mean they collide with the buffers. That H(and similar at Manchester and Leeds stations) is the reason I think HS2 is the wrong solution to the need for a new railway. To emulate HS1, HS2 phases 1 and 2a should have run London Euston - Birmingham Curzon Street - TUNNEL - Crewe, with connections onto classic lines allowing trains from London to branch off just after Birmingham to Wolverhampton and at Crewe to Liverpool, Chester and Glasgow. In addition, although rather different from HS1, I think there should have been a number of links just south of Birmingham Curzon Street allowing trains from Crewe (and points north) to head for Bristol and trains from Leeds (and beyond, via phase 2b of HS2) to run into Birmingham to New Street and thence on to Bristol. |
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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Electric train
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« Reply #655 on: August 06, 2017, 13:29:07 » |
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Whilst Curzon St will be the Brum city point for HS2▸ , it has the be remembered HS2 is not just a point to point line. The way SE Trains uses HS1▸ is possibly the best UK▸ example, trains run fast on the high speed line to a station (like Curzon St) and the go forward perhaps on conventional lines to other stations like Derby or on another part of the high speed network, this is the way the high speed lines work in Europe HS1 and HS2 are very different in that HS1 only has one terminal station; on HS2 trains to Curzon Street won't be able to 'go forward' as you put it because continuing forwards will mean they collide with the buffers. That H(and similar at Manchester and Leeds stations) is the reason I think HS2 is the wrong solution to the need for a new railway. To emulate HS1, HS2 phases 1 and 2a should have run London Euston - Birmingham Curzon Street - TUNNEL - Crewe, with connections onto classic lines allowing trains from London to branch off just after Birmingham to Wolverhampton and at Crewe to Liverpool, Chester and Glasgow. In addition, although rather different from HS1, I think there should have been a number of links just south of Birmingham Curzon Street allowing trains from Crewe (and points north) to head for Bristol and trains from Leeds (and beyond, via phase 2b of HS2) to run into Birmingham to New Street and thence on to Bristol. They will "run through" by reversing ............. now here's the radical bit   .................. the driver gets out of the leading cab and another driver gets in what was the rear cab and continues the journey .............. platform dwell time might be a minutes longer than any other stopping point |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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stuving
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« Reply #656 on: November 02, 2017, 14:41:20 » |
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The list of bidders for the high-speed rolling stock contract was announced today: The shortlisted bidders are: Alstom Transport; Bombardier Transportation UK▸ Ltd; Hitachi Rail Europe; Patentes Talgo S.L.U and Siemens PLC. They will all be invited to tender for the contracts, which will cover the design, build and maintenance of at least 54 trains coming into service from 2026. |
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stuving
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« Reply #658 on: February 15, 2018, 10:31:15 » |
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That "connecting the populations and businesses" argument was always a large part of the case made for HS2, and there were similar heat maps in their presentations. |
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eightf48544
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« Reply #659 on: February 15, 2018, 12:39:33 » |
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They will "run through" by reversing ............. now here's the radical bit .................. the driver gets out of the leading cab and another driver gets in what was the rear cab and continues the journey .............. platform dwell time might be a minutes longer than any other stopping point Only minutes extra! Have you taken into account how long it take to reboot the train to go the other way? Lymington! |
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