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Author Topic: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion  (Read 225718 times)
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #885 on: February 14, 2020, 10:45:23 am »

Future historians will look back on 2020 as a turning point for the railways every bit as significant as 1963.

Unless there’s another review later in the year and it ends up being cancelled.   Tongue
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #886 on: February 14, 2020, 03:13:04 pm »

Future historians will look back on 2020 as a turning point for the railways every bit as significant as 1963.

Unless there’s another review later in the year and it ends up being cancelled.   Tongue

And also remember that no Parliament can bind its successors, and there will be a few elections between now and when it finally opens for business.

Nothing is for certain until the station lights are switched on on the Big Day.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #887 on: February 14, 2020, 04:41:48 pm »

Here's a flythrough video that shows the whole of HS2 Phase 1 from Curzon St to Euston. Make a cup of tea, sit back, and enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bkoGvw9kbA 

Quite a fascinating watch with the overlays almost seamlessly added to the live footage.  Shows just how much tunnelling there is from the Chiltern's onwards into London.
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TonyK
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« Reply #888 on: February 14, 2020, 05:30:26 pm »

Unless there’s another review later in the year and it ends up being cancelled.   Tongue

And there's the rub! Certainty will only arrive with the first train, although by the time the next general election is due, it will surely have passed the point of no return.
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Now, please!
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #889 on: February 15, 2020, 06:24:21 am »

Interesting idea to get the costs back under control and finish the job more quickly......

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/14/uk-holds-preliminary-discussions-with-china-over-building-hs2
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grahame
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« Reply #890 on: February 15, 2020, 08:02:14 am »

Interesting idea to get the costs back under control and finish the job more quickly......

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/14/uk-holds-preliminary-discussions-with-china-over-building-hs2

Quote
Britain is in talks with China over giving Beijing’s state-owned railway builder a role in constructing the troubled HS2 high-speed link. The China Railway Construction Corporation (CRCC) has said it can build the line in just five years at a much lower cost than is currently forecast, according to the Financial Times.

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CCRC has transformed China’s transport system, building most of the country’s 15,500-mile high-speed network. However, British officials are said to be sceptical that it could operate in the same way in a democracy with property rights, protected landscapes and powerful lobbying groups.
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ellendune
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« Reply #891 on: February 15, 2020, 09:22:29 am »

However the BBC comments

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However, British officials are said to be sceptical that it could operate in the same way in a democracy with property rights, protected landscapes and powerful lobbying groups.

[Irony]

Who needs property rights and protected landscapes! - Ahh but what about my weekend cottage that is near the route

Yes lets quash lobby groups like FoE or RSPB or the Wildlife Trusts 

Ahh but then there is vote leave and climate change deniers....  perhaps lobby groups could be permitted if they are based at 55 Tufton Street!

[/Irony]
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #892 on: February 15, 2020, 11:34:33 am »

It would certainly have been done very differently had the Chinese done it 'their way'.  We would, no doubt, have had an extensive High Speed network by now, but at a much more detrimental effect on communities near the line, and with a much wider environmental impact.

The right approach is probably somewhere in the middle of the two methods of doing things, so perhaps some form of Chinese involvement will help in that regard.
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« Reply #893 on: February 15, 2020, 11:44:55 am »

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After giving HS2 the go-head, Boris Johnson can never again say there’s no money

Simon Jenkins

If a few businessmen can claim £100bn of public money for a dud project, how can he refuse a new hospital or school?

Britain’s greatest white elephant, HS2, was always a dud railway. It has grazed for 10 years on the Treasury lawn, and has now has been told it can stay, more dud than ever. It was symbolic this week that Boris Johnson launched HS2 not in the north but in a giant patch of Birmingham mud. Next to him stood his chancellor, Sajid Javid. They already looked like executioner and victim. Both seemed to know their “spine of the north” was as doomed as their relationship.

Nothing about HS2 has ever made sense. The route to Euston from Birmingham’s isolated Curzon Street, a mile from the rail hub of New Street, was chosen only because Robert Stephenson chose it in 1838. As high speed, it is daft. Each end is so ill-connected as to cancel any time saved aboard. In London the new line misses St Pancras by half a mile, thus denying the point of long-distance speed, which is to link the north with HS1 and the Channel. If HS2 patrons want to reach Europe by rail, they must wheel their suitcases down the Euston Road. Stephenson should have thought longer term.

HS2 will carry no freight. Even to attract passengers it must compete with the existing, perfectly adequate service to New Street. Euston is among London’s least congested stations. On the BBC this week, interviews with Birmingham passengers showed trains three-quarters empty.

[...continues]
Source: The Guardian
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Trowres
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« Reply #894 on: February 15, 2020, 12:12:11 pm »

Back to the China article, the comment from the chairman of the Commons foreign affairs committee might be a candidate for some sort of preservation:

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The idea that we should allow others to act like we did in places like India and Nigeria for the best part of 200 years here in the UK would be extremely questionable
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Celestial
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« Reply #895 on: February 15, 2020, 12:45:39 pm »

Given 40 people were killed in the Wenzhou high speed line collision due to faulty signalling I'm not sure I would entirely want to trust a Chinese led consortium either.
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« Reply #896 on: February 15, 2020, 01:32:21 pm »

Given 40 people were killed in the Wenzhou high speed line collision due to faulty signalling I'm not sure I would entirely want to trust a Chinese led consortium either.

And how many fatal accidents do they have building them?
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mjones
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« Reply #897 on: February 15, 2020, 02:27:02 pm »

Simon Jenkins continues his never ending battle against HS2, as unencumbered as ever by any real understanding of the scheme.
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« Reply #898 on: February 15, 2020, 03:20:40 pm »

Simon Jenkins continues his never ending battle against HS2, as unencumbered as ever by any real understanding of the scheme.

Some very silly stuff written by him, including the bizarre claim that the most important part of HS2 should be linking it with HS1 and passengers wanting to transfer onto HS1 and will have no option but to walk along the Euston Road to get to St. Pancras!  Not to mention the alleged mile between 'isolated' Curzon Street in Birmingham and the hub of New Street - utter rubbish!
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Trowres
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« Reply #899 on: February 15, 2020, 03:40:06 pm »

The "alleged mile" by Google is 0.6 miles or 14 minutes walk. Others on this forum can correct me if needed and explain why this isn't an impediment to connectivity.
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