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Author Topic: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion  (Read 229618 times)
MVR S&T
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« Reply #1050 on: September 21, 2020, 11:12:49 pm »

HS2 keeping historians, arhaeologists and film makers employed.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000mmrc/britains-biggest-dig-series-1-episode-1

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TonyK
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« Reply #1051 on: September 23, 2020, 09:16:45 am »

HS2 keeping historians, arhaeologists and film makers employed.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000mmrc/britains-biggest-dig-series-1-episode-1



I saw the second half of that, from about the mystery of the Indian slippers found next to the man's skellington. I might watch the rest later, after I've finished burying the Batman costume in our local churchyard.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #1052 on: September 27, 2020, 07:59:33 pm »

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Quote from: MVR S&T on September 21, 2020, 11:12:49 pm
HS2 keeping historians, arhaeologists and film makers employed.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000mmrc/britains-biggest-dig-series-1-episode-1

Another episode just finishing. Fascinating stuff - but it all adds to the cost.

I leave others to discuss as to the justification of such cost.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1053 on: September 27, 2020, 10:18:07 pm »

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Quote from: MVR S&T on September 21, 2020, 11:12:49 pm
HS2 keeping historians, arhaeologists and film makers employed.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000mmrc/britains-biggest-dig-series-1-episode-1

Another episode just finishing. Fascinating stuff - but it all adds to the cost.

I leave others to discuss as to the justification of such cost.

I'd be interested in the justification of this additional ?600 million cost too, interesting read today.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/09/26/hs2-ignored-600-million-savings-campaigners-claim/
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #1054 on: September 27, 2020, 11:22:20 pm »


We'll have to take your word for it! That pesky Telegraph paywall strikes again...
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1055 on: September 28, 2020, 06:42:32 am »


We'll have to take your word for it! That pesky Telegraph paywall strikes again...

I'm far too good to you, really I am!  Wink

"HS2 has been accused of ?ignoring? up to ?600 million of savings by shunning proposals to revive a disused railway line for a key infrastructure facility, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.

Officials from the scheme are said to have attempted to ?bury? a cost-effective alternative to a maintenance site on the Midlands to Crewe route that could be built three years faster.

An independent report on comparable costs between the location favoured by the project and the one offered to it externally found the latter would make ?93 million in direct savings.

It is believed the new site would also eliminate the need for two further facilities earmarked for construction at a later stage in the project, expected to cost around ?500 million.

HS2, however, has insisted on pushing ahead with its plan to build the facility at the original location in Stone, insisting it is the most cost effective option near Stoke-on-Trent, prompting a furious three-year row with campaigners.

Alternative site

The rival proposal was first devised by a group representing several Staffordshire parish councils when they grew concerned the Stone site would be ?overwhelmed? by the number of lorries needed daily to deliver bulk materials.

They alighted on a location around eight miles away, known as Aldersey?s Rough, which their assessment concluded was ?a far superior engineering, environmental and economic solution?.

Details of the alternative plan were sent to Sir David Higgins, then HS2?s chairman, in 2017, with the group even saying the organisation could claim the idea as its own.

?We expected HS2 to snatch our hands off with our idea because it was so much better than theirs, but they had already made their mind up before we even got a chance to speak to them,? Trevor Parkin, an environment consultant who helped draw up the plan, told the Telegraph.

?Because of the timescales that they were working to, they weren?t prepared to listen really, which took us by surprise at the time.?

HS2 plans to use the Stone infrastructure facility, known as a railhead, to import materials to build the route to Crewe, before it becomes a permanent maintenance base for the next phase between Crewe and Manchester.

Levelling up
The Aldersey?s Rough site would instead focus on a former railway line not used since 1998, which could be reconnected to Newcastle-under-Lyme - the most populous town in England without a rail station.

?There was potential for it to have a massive positive legacy," Mr Parkin said.

?The whole argument for HS2 is that it is ?levelling up the country? and providing connectivity, but they were just not interested.?

He says that after being knocked back repeatedly, Mr Parkin, who this month gave evidence in opposition to the Stone site to a House of Lords committee, asked a respected infrastructure consultant to carry out a cost analysis of the two sites.

Michael Byng, who has previously made headlines for estimating that the total cost of HS2 could reach ?106.4 billion, concluded that Aldersey?s Rough was a more practical option and would be ?93 million cheaper.

Mr Byng told the Telegraph: ?Apart from the money difference, you can also do a breakback for what it means for logistics. I think Aldersey?s Rough is a far better site.?

Campaigners also claim Aldersey?s Rough would be able to carry out the functions of a railhead and maintenance site due to be built near the village of Ashley, Staffordshire, for the phase of HS2 linking Crewe to Manchester.

Mr Parkin said: ?Aldersey?s Rough would remove any need to build either facility at Ashley, and this would conservatively save HS2 and more importantly the UK Government and taxpayer another ?500 million, on top of the ?93 million of direct savings.?

Call for an investigation
Dame Cheryl Gillan, the MP for Chesham and Amersham and a long-standing critic of HS2, suggested the Government should investigate the reports of the savings.

She said: ?HS2 makes a habit of not listening to local people and their community relations have been consistently poor, no matter where in the country the construction is taking place.

?If this a saving that they have decided not to make, then really it should be investigated by the Department of Transport.?

HS2 Ltd said the Aldersey?s Rough proposals had already been rejected by a House of Commons Select Committee in 2018.

A spokesman added: ?A construction railhead at Stone and its subsequent conversion into a HS2 infrastructure maintenance base for the operational railway offers the best strategic and most cost-effective solution for the building and operation of HS2.?


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Lee
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« Reply #1056 on: September 28, 2020, 09:40:39 am »

My wife and I love watching "Murder She Wrote", where our namesake sleuth-of-a-certain-age Jessica Fletcher is known for having what fans call a "Ding Moment", where three-quarters pf the way through the show, the solution magically seems to comes to her out of nowhere.

This article seems to do this in reverse, where the solution is magically revealed to us right at the beginning, and I have to say it had me enthralled most of the way through. Unfortunately, the article then has its "Byng Moment" - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=23819.0 - where the name of the "respected infrastructure consultant" is revealed, thus killing off the proposal at the end of the show instead of the start...
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« Reply #1057 on: September 28, 2020, 11:05:15 am »

Took me a bit of sleuthing to find it, but SGRC very kindly gave sufficient information to allow me to triangulate to proposed new site at Aldersley's Rough:

Quote
?The site is about 1.5 kilometres away from Madeley and the village of Keele is about 1.2 kilometres away. It is very remote compared to where we are in Stone.
Source:Stoke Sentinel

Here it is.

https://goo.gl/maps/ZfiSchjbvFzi2R1t8

It is, indeed, more remote than Stone (which has a main line railway and the M6 running past it). You might even call it 'unspoilt', which is not a word that would necessarily spring to mind when describing Yarnfield Lane... 

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TonyK
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« Reply #1058 on: September 30, 2020, 08:27:49 am »


It is, indeed, more remote than Stone (which has a main line railway and the M6 running past it). You might even call it 'unspoilt', which is not a word that would necessarily spring to mind when describing Yarnfield Lane... 



Isn't that the M6 a few hundred metres past one of the catteries, before you get to the quarry? One man's Shangri-La...
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #1059 on: September 30, 2020, 10:40:17 am »


It is, indeed, more remote than Stone (which has a main line railway and the M6 running past it). You might even call it 'unspoilt', which is not a word that would necessarily spring to mind when describing Yarnfield Lane... 



Isn't that the M6 a few hundred metres past one of the catteries, before you get to the quarry? One man's Shangri-La...

Indeed it is. However my desk-based analysis suggests that impact of the M6 is probably reduced by the fact that there is a ridge between it and Aldersey's Rough, and the M6 is in a cutting.
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TonyK
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« Reply #1060 on: September 30, 2020, 08:58:13 pm »

Indeed it is. However my desk-based analysis suggests that impact of the M6 is probably reduced by the fact that there is a ridge between it and Aldersey's Rough, and the M6 is in a cutting.

Ah - I am not favoured with the contour version. I wonder if it was chosen because of the railway line, probably disused, adjacent to the site? It looks like it nearly has a connection to the mainline.

Also - how many cats do they have in that cattery? Those are some serious looking retention tanks!
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #1061 on: September 30, 2020, 10:57:55 pm »

Indeed it is. However my desk-based analysis suggests that impact of the M6 is probably reduced by the fact that there is a ridge between it and Aldersey's Rough, and the M6 is in a cutting.

Ah - I am not favoured with the contour version. I wonder if it was chosen because of the railway line, probably disused, adjacent to the site? It looks like it nearly has a connection to the mainline.

Also - how many cats do they have in that cattery? Those are some serious looking retention tanks!

I cheated by looking at an OS map (online, natch). The woods are on the 130 - 135m contour lines; the ridge is at 150 - 155m (with a spot height of 152m at the cattery); the M6 is back down somewhere around 125 - 130m, though it's hard to be precise.

As far as I can tell by zooming in on the Google Maps aerial view, there's just one cat in the cattery. A white one. It's huge: https://goo.gl/maps/hfe1EY7wVpq41S4G8

In truth I don't really have a dog in this fight; I just like to test my sleuthing skills sometimes.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1062 on: October 15, 2020, 06:41:31 am »

Ching Ching!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54538639
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Lee
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« Reply #1063 on: October 15, 2020, 08:46:39 am »

Ching Ching!

I doubt they'll use bells on HS2 - I expect the announcements will be automated.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #1064 on: October 15, 2020, 11:36:37 am »


Expensive. But still not GBP106BN...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2020, 11:43:48 am by Red Squirrel » Logged
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