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Author Topic: HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general discussion  (Read 303264 times)
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #1125 on: February 15, 2021, 06:03:55 pm »

Short video showing some of the construction sites on the route.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56045071

Thanks for the link.  Good to see work progressing nicely.
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« Reply #1126 on: February 22, 2021, 06:33:13 pm »

It looks to me as though they are going ahead with this HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) thing...

You bet! This video just appeared on railforums, and shows just how massive the tunnel lining sector factory and spoil management works (among other things) for the Chiltern tunnel drive are. Some ground works have been visible on Google Earth, but their snaps are not that frequent so usually a few months old. Clearly, there has now been a lot of dirt shifted at the several works sites out that way.

And why is it from RT? Pass. 
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TonyK
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« Reply #1127 on: February 24, 2021, 02:56:40 pm »

You bet! This video just appeared on railforums, and shows just how massive the tunnel lining sector factory and spoil management works (among other things) for the Chiltern tunnel drive are. Some ground works have been visible on Google Earth, but their snaps are not that frequent so usually a few months old. Clearly, there has now been a lot of dirt shifted at the several works sites out that way.

And why is it from RT? Pass. 

It's very nice of the Russian government to provide us with that fascinating glimpse, including RAF (Royal Air Force) Northolt briefly. It makes a change from the usual pictures of cathedrals.

Somewhere in Russia, a man is shaking a golden toilet brush at the screen in amazement, and wondering why on earth we are so accommodating towards protesters in tunnels. I wouldn't be surprised if the custom in former Soviet countries in such matters is to tell them "You're very welcome to stay and dig, but we're filling it with concrete tomorrow."
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« Reply #1128 on: June 14, 2021, 07:07:53 am »

Couple of interesting articles in light of Cummings and others revelations on the basis on which HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) was signed off;

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/12/boris-johnson-approved-hs2-based-garbage-data-dominic-cummings/

https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/dom-cummings-is-a-decade-late-in-noting-hs2s-worthlessness
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« Reply #1129 on: July 25, 2021, 07:10:28 pm »

HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) phase 2b rated "unachievable"

https://www.constructionnews.co.uk/hs2/major-projects-body-brands-hs2-phase-2b-unachievable-19-07-2021/

This is the report in question......

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/infrastructure-and-projects-authority-annual-report-2021
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« Reply #1130 on: August 02, 2021, 08:37:20 am »

from RailFuture (press release) on changes to HS2 (The next High Speed line(s))

Quote
Railfuture’s way forward for at-risk HS2 East and Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR).

The eagerly anticipated Integrated Plan has been delayed, leading to fears of  cutbacks or cancellations to investment in the North of England’s railways.

“A smart solution? We’re keenly aware that the term “smart” has been used before as a euphemism for cutbacks” said Railfuture director Ian Brown. “The then Secretary of State used it when he announced cutting back electrification of the Great Western Main line to somewhere around Chippenham and the Midland Main Line similarly near Market Harborough. The word “smart” is also starting to be used again as the government looks at options of cutting back the HS2 East scheme and potentially, Northern Powerhouse Rail too.”

“We haven’t changed our position that HS2 East (Birmingham to Leeds)  and Northern Powerhouse rail (Manchester to Leeds) should be constructed in full, properly integrated into the North’s rail network, to provide additional network capacity and resilience and economic benefits across the whole region. “

“If the government does announce a “smart” cutback, we’ve set out our minimum requirements so the original objectives of levelling up the north in transport terms can be achieved.”

Railfuture 10 demands –smarter still:

1  HS2 West must be completed in full from London Euston, via Old Oak Common (Interchange with Crossrail) to Birmingham Interchange (Birmingham Airport)- served by more HS2 trains, and Curzon Street in Birmingham.  Associated rail and light rail distribution projects, based on Curzon Street and Moor Street stations must be implemented to maximise regional benefits in Birmingham and the Black Country.

2. HS2 West must continue as per powers obtained to Crewe, Manchester Airport and Manchester Piccadilly.

3.. The plan must provide through linkages on to the West Coast Main Line designed to provide maximum economic benefits to Cheshire, North Wales, Lancashire, Cumbria and Scotland by the provision of through trains running onto the classic network directly from HS2.  HS2 must be seen as addressing capacity and resilience issues on the whole national rail network in the West and East Midlands and Northern England.

4.  Augmented HS2 station platform capacity is required at Manchester Airport and Piccadilly. At Manchester Airport, capacity is required to provide for an HS2 shuttle to Manchester and onwards so relieving the Castlefield Corridor. The two additional HS2/NPR platforms are required at Piccadilly to facilitate NPR connections and also through services HS2/NPR via Manchester, preferably in the form of through platforms as advocated by Railfuture, or at least by reversal with a small time penalty. The recently constructed Ordsall Chord would not be used by NPR trains but would become available as originally planned but then abandoned, for Calder Valley trains accessing HS2 at Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.

5.. Levelling up the North West without levelling up the North East is unsustainable if the Northern Powerhouse as a single economic entity is to be taken seriously. If HS2 East is cut back, a series of mitigation measures are required to achieve capacity and resilience objectives, even if the speed objective is subordinated.

6.. A plan for the East Midlands is required based on HS2 East going as far as East Midlands Parkway or Toton as a minimum, so providing connections or through services to Nottingham and additional capacity on the Birmingham to the North East CrossCountry route.  A fast regional Birmingham to Nottingham route is a Railfuture priority shared by authorities in the East and West Midlands, not provided by the original HS2 East plan.

7.  HS2 East must feed into an upgraded Erewash Valley route directly serving Chesterfield and Sheffield and onward to Wakefield and Leeds via an upgraded and electrified Sheffield to Leeds route. HS2 trains would serve Wakefield and Leeds via Sheffield.

8.. The previous “smart” decision on Midland Main line must be reversed by continuing electrification from Market Harborough via Leicester, Nottingham and Derby to Sheffield.

9.. If the government does also cancel Northern Powerhouse Rail (Manchester – Bradford – Leeds) and opt for a capacity upgrade and electrification of the Standedge Trans Pennine route branded as NPR, Railfuture contends that the following upgrades are essential:
    NPR to run from 2 additional HS2 platforms at Manchester Piccadilly (Currently being consulted)
    NPR to run into Leeds on an improved alignment, irrespective of the choice of NPR routing
    Infrastructure upgrades are required to connect the HS2 stations in Manchester and Leeds to the Standedge route so reducing journey times, particularly alleviating the current poor alignment approaching Leeds.
    NPR would serve Liverpool using the upgraded infrastructure at Miles Platting, Victoria and the Chat Moss route.
NPR would serve Bradford as would HS2 by through HST (High Speed Train) trains via Manchester.
    The 4 tracking upgrade planned by Network Rail  in the Mirfield area is essential to this plan so also facilitating the freight route via the Calder Valley to Yorkshire.

10. Infrastructure upgrades are required on the East Coast Main line to accelerate the current service to Leeds and provide economic benefits, envisaged by HS2 to North Yorkshire, Durham and Teesside, Tyneside, Northumberland and connectivity into Scotland. This includes alleviation of certain pinch points south of Doncaster and provision of a four track railway, effectively from south of York to Newcastle.

Railfuture chairman Chris Page added:  “The only truly smart solution in a government cut back scenario is an HS2 London – Manchester – Leeds high speed route with a branch to the East Midlands integrated with an upgraded Midland Main Line to Sheffield and Leeds.”

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« Reply #1131 on: August 22, 2021, 05:31:31 pm »

Leak suggests Eastern leg of HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) to Leeds may be scrapped;

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/hs2-eastern-leg-to-leeds-may-be-scrapped-new-leak-claims/ar-AANBctV?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
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« Reply #1132 on: August 22, 2021, 09:24:30 pm »

White elephant loses a leg.
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« Reply #1133 on: August 22, 2021, 10:28:52 pm »

The worst outcome would be to only build part of it.
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« Reply #1134 on: August 23, 2021, 08:18:33 am »

Nigel Harris has posted his comment on HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) in a recent RAIL edition on Twitter this morning.

It is worth reading

https://twitter.com/rail/status/1429690550719029248?s=21
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« Reply #1135 on: August 23, 2021, 08:20:48 am »

The worst outcome would be to only build part of it.

I predict that, even if this government cancels it, like HS1 (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) (previously known as the CTRL (Channel Tunnel Rail Link)) the second leg will be built.  The difference would be that if it is built after being cancelled, the design costs will be even higher as the route would have to be reassessed as new barriers would have been built in its way.
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« Reply #1136 on: August 23, 2021, 05:25:40 pm »

If you match up the constituency map to the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) map, then the political temptation for the Government to scrap the eastern leg becomes fairly obvious.

In terms of constituencies related to stations that the HS2 eastern leg would actually call at, the East Midlands Hub, which will have Nottingham and Derby as primary catchments, is in Broxtowe constituency which along with Derby North is Conservative-held. Aside from that, Derby South and all of the Nottingham, Chesterfield, Sheffield and Leeds seats are Labour-held. It is also the case that the eastern leg would go right through a number of Conservative seats, some of them gained at the last election, without stopping.

When you consider constituencies related to stations that the HS2 eastern leg services would then go on to call at using the classic network, only Darlington is Conservative-held, while York Central is an isolated pocket of red in a sea of blue, and the City of Durham and Newcastle seats are Labour-held as well.

By contrast, on the western side, Stafford, Crewe, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Penrith, Carlisle and Lockerbie are all Conservative-held and will all be served by HS2 services, while Birmingham, Manchester and Warrington all saw seats turning blue at the last general election as well.
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« Reply #1137 on: August 23, 2021, 06:02:55 pm »

If you match up the constituency map to the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) map, then the political temptation for the Government to scrap the eastern leg becomes fairly obvious.

In terms of constituencies related to stations that the HS2 eastern leg would actually call at, the East Midlands Hub, which will have Nottingham and Derby as primary catchments, is in Broxtowe constituency which along with Derby North is Conservative-held. Aside from that, Derby South and all of the Nottingham, Chesterfield, Sheffield and Leeds seats are Labour-held. It is also the case that the eastern leg would go right through a number of Conservative seats, some of them gained at the last election, without stopping.

When you consider constituencies related to stations that the HS2 eastern leg services would then go on to call at using the classic network, only Darlington is Conservative-held, while York Central is an isolated pocket of red in a sea of blue, and the City of Durham and Newcastle seats are Labour-held as well.

By contrast, on the western side, Stafford, Crewe, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Penrith, Carlisle and Lockerbie are all Conservative-held and will all be served by HS2 services, while Birmingham, Manchester and Warrington all saw seats turning blue at the last general election as well.

Given public opinion, which settles somewhere between opposition and indifference, I doubt the Government is particularly worried about the effect on seats;

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/support-for-high-speed-rail-hs2

Given the colossal overspend and uncertain benefits (which were ludicrously over forecast), it won't be a difficult sell.

If it does get axed, expect it to be explained as a reflection of the falling off of business travel (a big part of the business case) and the "New World" post COVID, and also a huge saving which can be spent on the NHS etc - disingenuous yes, but it helped win a referendum when painted on the side of a bus!
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« Reply #1138 on: August 23, 2021, 06:19:55 pm »

You'd be surprised TG - There has actually been quite a substantial lobbying effort by "red wall" Conservative MPs (Member of Parliament) in the area who dont feel they will benefit from the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) eastern leg, led by Alexander Stafford, MP for the Rother Valley who is quoted in the very article you posted explaining why.

This as you can imagine has provoked a pretty strong reaction from leading Labour politicians who feel that it definitely would benefit their areas, who have cottoned on to the fact that the rug is about to be pulled, and robustly explain their position in the very same article:

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« Reply #1139 on: August 23, 2021, 06:31:47 pm »

You'd be surprised TG - There has actually been quite a substantial lobbying effort by "red wall" Conservative MPs (Member of Parliament) in the area who dont feel they will benefit from the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) eastern leg, led by Alexander Stafford, MP for the Rother Valley who is quoted in the very article you posted explaining why.

This as you can imagine has provoked a pretty strong reaction from leading Labour politicians who feel that it definitely would benefit their areas, who have cottoned on to the fact that the rug is about to be pulled, and robustly explain their position in the very same article:


Yes, fair points, we'll see once the spinners get to work on it!  Smiley
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