Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 09:15 28 Mar 2024
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
- Man suffers life-threatening injuries after train stabbing
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1917)
Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore closed (link)

Train RunningCancelled
06:57 Swansea to London Paddington
07:43 Swansea to London Paddington
08:18 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
08:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
09:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
09:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
09:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
09:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
09:46 Westbury to Swindon
10:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
10:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
10:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:05 Swindon to Westbury
11:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
05:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
06:38 Weymouth to Gloucester
06:54 Taunton to London Paddington
08:38 London Paddington to Westbury
09:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
Delayed
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
05:23 London Paddington to Swansea
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 09:13 Bristol Temple Meads to Gloucester
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 London Paddington to Oxford
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 09:30:37 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[146] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[117] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[80] Return of the BRUTE?
[63] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[49] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[27] CrossCountry upgrade will see 25% more rail seats
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
  Print  
Author Topic: City tram-trains trial unveiled in South Yorkshire - Rotherham / Sheffield  (Read 26743 times)
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17865


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« on: September 15, 2009, 23:49:22 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Passengers in South Yorkshire could be the first in the UK (United Kingdom) to use Continental-style tram-trains under plans announced by the Department for Transport (DfT» (Department for Transport - about)).

A trial of the electric vehicles is planned on a new service linking Rotherham and Sheffield. Once a feasibility study has been completed, the project will take three years and ^24m to get up and running.

Five tram-trains will run on existing freight track from Rotherham and then join the Sheffield Supertram network.

The scheme replaces a previously-announced tram-train trial on the Penistone Line, linking Sheffield and Huddersfield via Barnsley, which would have used diesel-powered vehicles.

That phase of the trial is now due to go ahead at a later date after it was decided that the electric tram-trains were more economically viable.

Rail Minister Chris Mole announced the plans on a visit to Meadowhall in Sheffield, where tram-trains will connect to the city's Supertram network. He said: "Tram-train is a new concept for Britain, but it has already proved a valuable addition to rail fleets on the continent. Adapting tram-train to the UK requires some testing, but while that is under way, people in South Yorkshire will have the chance to experience this new type of vehicle for themselves, and I hope they will tell us what they think of it."

David Brown, director general of the South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive, said: "If we can overcome the technical challenges then tram-trains would bring huge benefits to the travelling public in South Yorkshire. They would widen the options available to those people travelling between Rotherham and Sheffield and the technology could eventually be used elsewhere in the UK too."

Train operator Northern Rail will buy the new vehicles for the Rotherham-Sheffield operation, while Network Rail is investigating what works would be necessary to safely accommodate the vehicles on the UK network.
Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
bemmy
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 270



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2009, 10:31:15 »

How extraordinarily sensible. And they've even realised that electric ones are more viable!!!

One day Bristol could have them as well........ if it wasn't in the westcountry.
Logged
vacman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2530


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2009, 21:38:16 »

Am not familiar with that part of the world, is this sceme basicly re-opening a line that is currently freight only?
Logged
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17865


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2009, 21:51:25 »

Erm ... rather like the Portishead branch, you mean?  Roll Eyes Shocked Grin
Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
brompton rail
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 262



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 14:53:08 »

Am not familiar with that part of the world, is this sceme basicly re-opening a line that is currently freight only?

Sheffield Supertram line (double track) from City Centre to Meadowhall Interchange runs for a distance alongside the freight only Woodburn Junction to Rotherham Central line.  Network Rail are to look at putting in a connection between the 2 lines (perhaps between Arena and Carbrook tramstops), then they would need to electrify the freight line which runs on the south side of the valley from adjacent to Meadowhall South tram stop to Rotherham Central station. Just short of Rotherham Central (i.e. west of station) the single line connection (Holmes Chord) from the main Sheffield to Doncaster line (at Holmes junction) trails into the freight line, indeed the double track freight and single track passenger lines run parallel for perhaps half a mile. This single track connection restricts the number of passenger trains into Rotherham Central to about 3 trains per hour each way (i.e. total 6 movements) - 2 Sheffield - Doncaster stopper and 1 Sheffield - Leeds via Wakefield Westgate stopper.

Therefore by running TramTrain on this Sheffield City Centre - Meadowhall Shopping Centre - Rotherham Central route  the frequency of service can be greatly improved and still allow connection with National Rail services at Rotherham Central. I imagine that either a low level platform extension or perhaps a bay with low platform will need to be built at Rotherham, but I guess this will form part of Network Rail's investigation, as any possible intermediate tram stops might.  I am told that the Sheffield - Meadowhall - Barnsley - Penistone - Huddersfield Tram Train scheme is now Phase 2 and is expected to go ahead. Personally I doubt that it will be during the current franchise period for Northern Rail but who knows the next government may see it as priority. The Huddersfield scheme was a very ambitious experiment as it involved trams on 3 types of railway, each with its own regulations and legal requirements: Sheffield / Meadowhall is high speed mixed railway (TENs is it?), whilst Meadowhall to Barnsley is mostly DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) with rare freights, and onto Huddersfield is a stand alone line with only DMUs which could have been operated on a form of drive on sight perhaps with less rigourous signalling. Finding anyone to supply 5 diesel trams was, according to railway press, difficult, whereas electric trams are easier to source.

Hope this helps relate what is proposed to other lines, like Portishead, or even some branches where diesel trams would be the only choice.
Logged
vacman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2530


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2009, 21:14:39 »

Personally I don't see the point in the Penistone project, why don't hey just spend all that money on some decent DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s to run on the existing line!
Logged
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2009, 21:23:53 »

I don't think anyone did. It was a DaFT» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) project, in more ways than one. Spending lots of money lowering platforms and buying a handful of non standard diesel trams to replicate the existing once an hour service.
Logged
Chris from Nailsea
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 17865


I am not railway staff


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2012, 20:06:27 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
First tram-train gets go-ahead for Sheffield to Rotherham

Tram-trains which run on street tracks and railway lines are to be piloted in South Yorkshire in a scheme worth ^58m, the government has confirmed.

Starting in 2015, the newly-built tram-trains will run on local tram routes and Network Rail lines between Sheffield, Meadowhall and Rotherham.

The two-year pilot scheme will be the first of its kind in the UK (United Kingdom). Transport Minister Norman Baker said the pilot would test the concept for a possible wider roll-out across the UK.

Announcing the final go-ahead for the pilot scheme, Mr Baker said it would help to determine the practical and operational issues surrounding the running of tram-trains. "It will also allow us to gauge passenger perception and acceptability of tram-trains," he said.

South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive would take the lead in providing the new tram-trains and would sponsor the pilot in collaboration with Network Rail, Northern Rail and Stagecoach Supertram, said Mr Baker.

The ^58m budget would cover the cost of the new vehicles and the necessary changes to infrastructure, he added.

Julie Dore, leader of Sheffield City Council, said passengers would be "extremely pleased" the pilot scheme would take place in South Yorkshire. "We've been waiting for it for a few years. The country needs to do something like this. It will reduce congestion on the roads so it's beneficial to both Sheffield and Rotherham."

The tram-trains are expected to cut journey times and make it easier for people to get into the city centres the vehicles serve.

They are said to be lighter, more energy efficient and have faster acceleration and deceleration than conventional trains.
Logged

William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Btline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4782



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 20:21:38 »

Am I missing something? Why not just run normal trains on the line?

Yet another route ruined by trams - just like Wolverhampton to Snow Hill. Roll Eyes
Logged
brompton rail
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 262



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 21:01:36 »

Am I missing something? Why not just run normal trains on the line?

Yet another route ruined by trams - just like Wolverhampton to Snow Hill. Roll Eyes

Not quite as simple as converting a railway line into a tram line.

The Sheffield - Meadowhall - Rotherham Central line is a very busy line and carries freight, Intercity, semi-fast and local trains. There are around 12 trains per hour most of the day, that is 12 each way on double track, between Sheffield and Meadowhall Interchange. Of these 3 each way per hour leave the main line at Holmes Junction for the loop via Rotherham Central. Part of this loop involves a single ladder junction and a stretch of single track.

The tram-train does not use this line, but will use the existing tram line from Sheffield City Centre (not the station) and adjacent to Meadowhall South tram stop a short junction will be made onto the parallel freight line. Tram-trains will then share the existing freight line to just south of Rotherham Central where the existing heavy rail passenger line joins the freight line. From here northwards for about a mile tram-train, dmus and freight trains will use the same track to the tram-train terminus at Parkgate retail park.

Trams will operate 3 times per hour into Sheffield City Centre, dmus will run 3 times per hour between Rotherham, Meadowhall Interchange and Sheffield stations (these trains originate from Doncaster (2) and beyond, or Leeds (1).

Currently Supertram runs 8 times an hour City to Meadowhall Interchange, with Meadowhall South being the first stop into town. Presumably tram-train will be additional to these and give 11 journeys per hour from Meadowhall South into the City. Remember that trams run on line of sight and are only signalled at road crossings etc.

Hope this is helpful.
Logged
Btline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4782



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 22:07:10 »

Ok, quite complicated. Thanks for explaining! Cool

I still can't see why they don't just divert passenger trains onto the freight line. Would this bypass the single track?
Or could they double track the existing line?
Sorry - I'm just against tram in general using heavy rail routes.

The XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Sheffield to Doncaster service is so slow. A bit of investment could really speed things up!
Logged
Rhydgaled
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1500


View Profile WWW
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 23:14:30 »

Yet another route ruined by trams - just like Wolverhampton to Snow Hill. Roll Eyes
Off-topic, but how frequent are the trams on that section? When various persons have lamented the passing of WSMR (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway), or mentioned providing Shrewsbury with some direct London services, I have wondered whether you could build a chord connecting the Wolverhampton - Snow Hill tram line to the mainline Wolverhampton station and route Chiltern's LHCS (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock) trains from Marylebone to Shrewsbury/Wrexham via that route (which would avoid the Wolverhampton - New Street route, which I'm told is full, while still allowing the train to call at Birmingham (Moor Street)). Obviously, that only works if the trams on the section are a lower frequency than Birmingham - Wolverhampton mainline rail services to allow paths for the Marylebone - Shrewsbury/Wrexham services.

And diesel-trams? I'm glad that daft suggestion was put aside.
Logged

----------------------------
Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 09:15:56 »

Yet another route ruined by trams - just like Wolverhampton to Snow Hill. Roll Eyes

If the trams just run on heavy rail and share it with DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) and Freight then you have Karlsruhe, Kassel, Nordhausan (metre gauge) and Saarbrucken type system, with true tram trains.  All you have in effect are trains that run on heavy rail on the outskirts of a town and then run through the town centre on the street on the tram lines. Heavy rail trains use the heavy rail lines as normal.

The only thing that could cause problems is that true tram trains should be dual voltage so that the heavy rail bit would be 25KV AC (162/3 AC in Germany) whilst  the street sections would be 600/700 DC (Direct Current). Unless like Kassel and Nordhausen they are EDs and run on diesel on the normal lines.

It seems much better than the daft idea idea running ED trams on diesel on the Sheffield Penistone Huddersfield line. This way heavy rail still uses the heavy rail track whilst pasengers get the option  of joining a tram into the city centre.

At last our planners might just have realised the potential to provided integrated transport in one vehicle.
Logged
Btline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4782



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 11:14:57 »

Off-topic, but how frequent are the trams on that section?

The trams would have to be axed to make way.
Fine in my opinion - passenger numbers have been very low (no surprise - the train is quicker and the bus is cheaper).
It could be done, removing ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) and LM (London Midland - recent franchise) Shrewsbury from New Street and giving them London services.
Snow Hill would regain platform 4 allowing for a local service on the line.

The existing line could have faster express services taking 15 minutes and the local stopper could be increased to 3 or 4 tph.

Nah - let's use this vital corridor for a pointless tram!
Trams run on the road. That is why they are called trams.

The people of Knutsford in Chesire had their rail service butchered when the mainline to Manchester was switched to trams. Trains are diverted via Stockport (a ridiculous route if you look at a map) and take 20 minutes longer.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10095


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2012, 11:32:07 »

I wonder what effect the New Street extension will have on passenger numbers?  Presumably part of that will have street running?
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page