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Author Topic: Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion  (Read 363395 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #1350 on: June 12, 2018, 10:43:47 am »

Timmer, you should know by now there's only one thing that broadgage is concerned about!
I know and I know it disappoints him to think there are those who could be going hungry because the train is short formed.

I would assure you that many other subjects concern me, however this thread is about CATERING.
Years ago I stated that the new DMUs would have no buffet, such views were widely ridiculed, though ultimately proved correct.
AFTER the new units were specified without buffets, a survey was done to prove that buffets were no longer wanted.
Advocates of the new trains changed their tune from "of course there will be a buffet" to "a trolley is much better, surveys show it"
I also stated that on a 5+5 train that the trolley would be in the other portion. This has happened regularly despite assurances that two trolleys would be provided on full length trains.
I further stated that downgrading the catering to only a trolley would much reduce choice, this also has happened, despite promises of improved trolleys that would "keep hot things hot and cold things cold"
A hot food service in standard class was also promised but seems to have sunk without trace.

Advocates of the new shorter trains have now had to change tack AGAIN by stating I should not judge the new trains on what is offered at present, but should wait until the whole fleet is in use.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
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« Reply #1351 on: June 12, 2018, 12:26:56 pm »

I would assure you that many other subjects concern me, however this thread is about CATERING.
Years ago I stated that the new DMUs would have no buffet, such views were widely ridiculed, though ultimately proved correct.

Can you point us to a post of yours that was ‘ridiculed’? 

I think most of us, myself included, simply said that it was pointless assuming anything, and as the train design allowed for a buffet we should wait and see.  I also remember acknowledging that your prediction did turn out to be correct and IIRC was (and am) disappointed that there will be no buffet on Swansea and WoE services where they would still be of great benefit.  Other GWR routes and a trolley is fine IMHO.

By the way I write this on a train where the customer host has just apologised for a lack of hot food and a cash only catering facility.  It’s a HST.
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« Reply #1352 on: June 12, 2018, 12:54:13 pm »

Over 20 half length IETs today, and ALL advertised as having reduced catering.

Looks like some of those have now been restored to full length, including the busy 17:30 to Taunton.  All reduced facilities have also been restored on the ones now correctly formed, leading me to believe what I suggested earlier regarding messages on journeycheck is probably correct.
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« Reply #1353 on: June 15, 2018, 11:46:50 am »

Years ago I stated that the new DMUs would have no buffet, such views were widely ridiculed, though ultimately proved correct.

Can you point us to a post of yours that was ‘ridiculed’.

Hmmm, it would appear not.   Roll Eyes
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broadgage
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« Reply #1354 on: June 15, 2018, 12:50:26 pm »

"ridiculed" is a rather subjective term open to differing interpretations.

"I was that I had your crystal ball" is at least mild ridicule.

I have however made many posts, going back some years, that were critical of the new DMUs in general, and in particular critical of the catering.
These were widely criticised and answered by such statements as "how can you state the absence of a buffet without even seeing a new train"
They don't have buffets.
I even pointed out published drawings showing no buffet, but was told that this represented "only one possible layout"

But a rigged survey was later done to show that buffets are no longer wanted, so that it is OK.

I also forecast that the improved trolley service would not happen, and it is as basic as forecast.
The promised hot food service in standard class never appeared.
If a full length train appears, then only one trolley seems to be the norm.

The far west services are yet to be downgraded, but it has been confirmed that these also will have no buffet.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
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« Reply #1355 on: June 15, 2018, 01:06:54 pm »

I would certainly agree to being critical of some of your posts, forums like this would be largely redundant if people all held the same opinions after all, but that’s a long way from any serious ridicule. 

I wouldn’t even describe any ‘crystal ball’ posts as anything more than a bit of light teasing at worst, given it’s you that keeps referring to it, but I accept that is a subjective opinion.

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« Reply #1356 on: June 16, 2018, 02:06:10 pm »

Not sure if it has been reported before, but a poster at the recent GWR Community Rail conference said catering trolleys would be provided on the Castle Class 2+4 HST sets when they enter service.
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CharlieGCR
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« Reply #1357 on: August 29, 2018, 03:23:48 am »

And 10 months has passed since the IET introduction and we are yet to see the catering improvements we were told about?

I understand GWR have better priority’s such as having a train long enough for the trolley to get through, but the level of catering being provided is a downgrade at the moment. They really should get a new trolley in and start to offer hot food facilities to all passengers if they want more trade. And add an extra trolley on the nine cars before passengers in coach A won’t starve.
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Will my train be cancelled this Sunday?
broadgage
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« Reply #1358 on: August 29, 2018, 11:37:09 am »

I never believed the stories about catering improvements, they were in my view a simple smokescreen to try and justify specifying the new DMUs without a buffet.
It remains to be seen what wonderous improvements are yet to come of course, the first 10 months have been a significant downgrade.

Mark Hopwood has stated on these forums that trolley catering would be greatly improved by the introduction of "improved trolleys that would keep hot things hot and cold things cold" These have yet to be seen.

I forecast that on a 5+5 train that the trolley would be in the wrong portion, this has happened regularly.
I also forecast that the reduced capacity of the new shorter trains would result in the trolley being static and unable to pass along the train, a frequent event.

And as for the excellent Pullman restaurant services, these have so far survived the downgrade from proper inter-city trains to DMUs, but I feat that their days are numbered.
Some time ago, in these forums, I queried how a restaurant service could be provided on a pair of non gangwayed 5 car DMUs.
Reports by a respected member on another forum* state that Pullman provision has been reduced to only 15 meals per train, and is restricted to first class.

When the GWR franchise is next re-tendered, I expect more catering downgrades, though like the original removal of the buffet car, these will no doubt be called improvements.

The prohibition on buffet cars is a GWR thing, customers on other routes will still be allowed buffet cars on their IETs.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
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« Reply #1359 on: August 29, 2018, 12:26:36 pm »

I never believed the stories about catering improvements, they were in my view a simple smokescreen to try and justify specifying the new DMUs without a buffet.
It remains to be seen what wonderous improvements are yet to come of course, the first 10 months have been a significant downgrade.

Mark Hopwood has stated on these forums that trolley catering would be greatly improved by the introduction of "improved trolleys that would keep hot things hot and cold things cold" These have yet to be seen.

I forecast that on a 5+5 train that the trolley would be in the wrong portion, this has happened regularly.
I also forecast that the reduced capacity of the new shorter trains would result in the trolley being static and unable to pass along the train, a frequent event.

And as for the excellent Pullman restaurant services, these have so far survived the downgrade from proper inter-city trains to DMUs, but I feat that their days are numbered.
Some time ago, in these forums, I queried how a restaurant service could be provided on a pair of non gangwayed 5 car DMUs.
Reports by a respected member on another forum* state that Pullman provision has been reduced to only 15 meals per train, and is restricted to first class.

When the GWR franchise is next re-tendered, I expect more catering downgrades, though like the original removal of the buffet car, these will no doubt be called improvements.

The prohibition on buffet cars is a GWR thing, customers on other routes will still be allowed buffet cars on their IETs.

I've been told the opposite more Pullman services to be launched,  and as for that rumor I'd take it as a pinch of salt.
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broadgage
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« Reply #1360 on: August 29, 2018, 05:27:04 pm »


I've been told the opposite more Pullman services to be launched,  and as for that rumor I'd take it as a pinch of salt.

I would certainly welcome more Pullmans, I can remember the good old days of 7 Pullmans a day in each direction to/from the west.

WHICH rumour is to be taken with a pinch of salt ? The one about more Pullmans ? or a different rumour.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
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« Reply #1361 on: August 29, 2018, 07:17:47 pm »

All rumours, especially railway related ones, should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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stuving
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« Reply #1362 on: August 29, 2018, 07:48:24 pm »

All rumours, especially railway related ones, should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Obviously, for rumours about Pullman services, that must be posh (here the opposite of refined) salt.
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devonexpress
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« Reply #1363 on: August 29, 2018, 08:18:45 pm »


I've been told the opposite more Pullman services to be launched,  and as for that rumor I'd take it as a pinch of salt.

I would certainly welcome more Pullmans, I can remember the good old days of 7 Pullmans a day in each direction to/from the west.

WHICH rumour is to be taken with a pinch of salt ? The one about more Pullmans ? or a different rumour.

The rumor of only 15 seats and only for first class passengers NOTHING has changed on the transfer of Pullman services from HST to IET.
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broadgage
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« Reply #1364 on: August 29, 2018, 10:38:19 pm »

Thanks for the clarification, one must take care not to confuse one rumour with another.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
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