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Author Topic: Great Western Railway: on-board catering, buffets, Travelling Chef, Pullman - ongoing discussion  (Read 364021 times)
bobm
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« Reply #1380 on: September 21, 2018, 06:21:40 am »

More correctly, the food is heated in a triple combination oven. Microwave, convection and tuned impingement together.  That's how your bacon roll stays crusty and your toastie/hot panini doesn't go all limp and soggy.


ÖÖÖÖ..as I go through life I often reflect on how soggy my panini would be without a tuned impingement to firm it up now and again.

A triple combination oven - now that could do wonders for my cooking.
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Umberleigh
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« Reply #1381 on: September 22, 2018, 10:30:23 am »

Timmer, you should know by now there's only one thing that broadgage is concerned about!
I know and I know it disappoints him to think there are those who could be going hungry because the train is short formed.

I would assure you that many other subjects concern me, however this thread is about CATERING.
Years ago I stated that the new DMUs would have no buffet, such views were widely ridiculed, though ultimately proved correct.
AFTER the new units were specified without buffets, a survey was done to prove that buffets were no longer wanted.
Advocates of the new trains changed their tune from "of course there will be a buffet" to "a trolley is much better, surveys show it"
I also stated that on a 5+5 train that the trolley would be in the other portion. This has happened regularly despite assurances that two trolleys would be provided on full length trains.
I further stated that downgrading the catering to only a trolley would much reduce choice, this also has happened, despite promises of improved trolleys that would "keep hot things hot and cold things cold"
A hot food service in standard class was also promised but seems to have sunk without trace.

Advocates of the new shorter trains have now had to change tack AGAIN by stating I should not judge the new trains on what is offered at present, but should wait until the whole fleet is in use.

Have to agree with your sentiments

Buffets are a great loss on the 2+ hour services but anyone who has followed the machinations of First will know they have been desperate to ditch the buffets for some time.

The new trolleys will prove inadequate because of the reasons you state, plus my experience of the trolley service on the Exeter to Waterloo line and Cross Country is that whilst some trolley crew are great, others prefer to sulk at the front/back of the train.
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« Reply #1382 on: September 22, 2018, 01:04:31 pm »

Advocates of the new shorter trains have now had to change tack AGAIN by stating I should not judge the new trains on what is offered at present, but should wait until the whole fleet is in use.

As an advocate I think itís only fair that once the trains are all in service we allow a further Ďbedding in periodí before we make a final judgement.  Five or so years would seem an appropriate amount of time.  Wink
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1st fan
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« Reply #1383 on: September 23, 2018, 09:35:59 pm »

Always downgrade facilities as much as possible. If SOME units allegedly don't need a buffet, then build them ALL without a buffet. No question of course of building them all WITH a buffet, even if this might not be needed on every diagram.
If all the 802s had been built with buffets though, you would lose seats on the busy Oxford/Cotswold commuter route.
Why not just move the kitchen space to between 1st and standard and incorporate the buffet into that? Very little extra space needed to do that I would have thought.
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« Reply #1384 on: September 23, 2018, 10:01:14 pm »

New allegedly intercity trains without a buffet car is a significant downgrade for 4+ hour journeys. This is not just my view.

I agree with that.  Trouble is the percentage of passengers travelling 4+hours on GWR's long distance routes is tiny.

The coffee has been seriously downgraded on journeys of all distances as there's only instant available from the trolley.
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grahame
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« Reply #1385 on: September 23, 2018, 10:13:12 pm »

The coffee has been seriously downgraded on journeys of all distances as there's only instant available from the trolley.

? I thought there were two coffees available - the instant and also a ground coffee in a special cup that you drink through a filter at a slightly higher cost.   Or was that just a trial (and not popular because no-one knew about it  Wink )
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Timmer
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« Reply #1386 on: September 23, 2018, 10:22:08 pm »

The coffee has been seriously downgraded on journeys of all distances as there's only instant available from the trolley.

? I thought there were two coffees available - the instant and also a ground coffee in a special cup that you drink through a filter at a slightly higher cost.   Or was that just a trial (and not popular because no-one knew about it  Wink )
Or werenít prepared to pay for it.
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broadgage
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« Reply #1387 on: September 23, 2018, 10:44:53 pm »

Always downgrade facilities as much as possible. If SOME units allegedly don't need a buffet, then build them ALL without a buffet. No question of course of building them all WITH a buffet, even if this might not be needed on every diagram.
If all the 802s had been built with buffets though, you would lose seats on the busy Oxford/Cotswold commuter route.
Why not just move the kitchen space to between 1st and standard and incorporate the buffet into that? Very little extra space needed to do that I would have thought.

For two reasons, firstly SOME of the kitchen area cant be used for seating as it in the crumple Zone.
Secondly and more importantly, FGW, later GWR, have decided that they don't wont buffets and have already done the survey to justify this downgrade.
Providing a buffet would be an admission of defeat.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
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« Reply #1388 on: September 23, 2018, 10:57:51 pm »

The coffee has been seriously downgraded on journeys of all distances as there's only instant available from the trolley.

? I thought there were two coffees available - the instant and also a ground coffee in a special cup that you drink through a filter at a slightly higher cost.   Or was that just a trial (and not popular because no-one knew about it  Wink )
I just checked with my coffee fiend friend and she said that the choice on the HST was Americano, Cappuccino, Cafe Latte & Espresso. Her comments on the IET coffee are mostly four letter words. Suffice to say that the instant cappuccino she was offered wasn't popular.
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1st fan
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« Reply #1389 on: September 23, 2018, 11:20:05 pm »

Always downgrade facilities as much as possible. If SOME units allegedly don't need a buffet, then build them ALL without a buffet. No question of course of building them all WITH a buffet, even if this might not be needed on every diagram.
If all the 802s had been built with buffets though, you would lose seats on the busy Oxford/Cotswold commuter route.
Why not just move the kitchen space to between 1st and standard and incorporate the buffet into that? Very little extra space needed to do that I would have thought.

For two reasons, firstly SOME of the kitchen area cant be used for seating as it in the crumple Zone.
Secondly and more importantly, FGW, later GWR, have decided that they don't wont buffets and have already done the survey to justify this downgrade.
Providing a buffet would be an admission of defeat.

Unless things have radically changed since the draft DfT layouts were published then none of the kitchen was in the crumple zone. It can't be because at the other end of the train there are standard seats in the kitchen space. There is a small staff space behind the driver and the staff only door that you might be thinking of but that's not used by the kitchen.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 11:34:31 pm by 1st fan » Logged
IndustryInsider
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« Reply #1390 on: September 24, 2018, 12:23:56 am »

Thatís correct.  No part of the kitchen is in the crumple zone, though if new menu proposals are accepted it will become part of the crumpet zone.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #1391 on: September 24, 2018, 12:59:15 am »

Thatís correct.  No part of the kitchen is in the crumple zone, though if new menu proposals are accepted it will become part of the crumpet zone.

Now look II, how many times have I told you not to write things for me to read like that when I'm having a drink or two.... Grin
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broadgage
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« Reply #1392 on: September 24, 2018, 01:12:13 am »

Thatís correct.  No part of the kitchen is in the crumple zone, though if new menu proposals are accepted it will become part of the crumpet zone.

Thanks for the correction, I have no reason to doubt your information, but it seems contrary to what FGW implied about a buffet taking up seating space.
FGW were however desperate to get rid of buffets so I don't take their views too seriously.

So apart from the FGW/GWR "no buffets policy" nothing prevents use of the present kitchen area for seating, and the provision of a proper kitchen and buffet between first and standard class, as found on a proper inter-city train rather than a regional DMU.

I cant see GWR admitting defeat and allowing buffets, but I suppose a future operator might.
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"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
ellendune
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« Reply #1393 on: September 24, 2018, 07:46:40 am »

I thought the No Buffets policy had been decided by DfT before GWR had a say in the design and that although they said GWR could change the layout they were given little real option as it was so late in the day.
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« Reply #1394 on: September 24, 2018, 11:40:11 am »

I cant see GWR admitting defeat and allowing buffets, but I suppose a future operator might.

I suppose there would be nothing stopping a future operator modifying the stock as it has been designed to be modified fairly easily with the modular design of the interiors.  However it would still cost money, take units out of revenue earning service while they were modified, and assuming they're not transferred to longer distance routes I don't think any other operator would want to take on the additional costs of providing a buffet on GWR's routes (with the possible exception of London to Plymouth/Penzance) for the reasons I outlined in post #1365.
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