Bristol connections: Metro, Bus Rapid Transit, PTE, ITA and local councils - discussion

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Reading through this thread I am still not really quite sure what the MetroBus is exactly. Is it a guided busway like Cambridge,  a sort of ring road used only by buses or a new road used by all traffic with afrequent bus service.

To my mind none of the three are particularly appealing!

Tram/Trains from Portishead to Severn Beach and round the Henbury loop with street running through the centre. Best of both worlds Rail and Road!

[Red Squirrel]

Details are here: http://www.travelwest.info/metrobus

...and for the planning guff (if which there is much!) go here and search using the term 'rapid': http://planningonline.bristol.gov.uk/online-applications/search.do?action=simple

In essence it is a system of guided and unguided busways, some of which will be open to regular traffic and have an infrequent bus service.

FT, N! may summarise it differently!

[TonyK]

Reading through this thread I am still not really quite sure what the MetroBus is exactly. Is it a guided busway like Cambridge,  a sort of ring road used only by buses or a new road used by all traffic with afrequent bus service.

To my mind none of the three are particularly appealing!

Tram/Trains from Portishead to Severn Beach and round the Henbury loop with street running through the centre. Best of both worlds Rail and Road!

More misguided than guided, more bust than bus, more rabid than rapid. It's a Trojan horse for a road building scheme.

[Oberon]

I have just come back from Edinburgh. Locals might have complained of disruption during the building of their tram system but now it is up & running it is wonderful and well patronised too. In time it will become cherished and extensions will be built. I very much doubt if Bristol's  bus scheme will ever become either of these things. Those who accepted government money for this cut-price "rapid transit" are the true heirs of 1960s planners, and one day will suffer a similar reputation for lack of foresight.

[TonyK]

The same is true of Manchester, where all the grumbling in Oldham about the mess caused building the line disappeared with the first tram. Te airport line is looking good to open a year ahead of schedule, the second city centre route is under way, and more is to come. Blackpool will soon have trams running to North Station. All these things are transformational. MetroBust is more dysfunctional.

I pity whoever gets the job of the Grand Opening Ceremony. "Is that it? Someone had you for fools, folks"

[Red Squirrel]

...one day...

From day one, actually.

I was in Nottingham the other week, where locals are being less than positive about the extension through Beeston - again because of the disruption. Oh to have such problems!

[Red Squirrel]

From Bristol 24/7:

Secret report reveals soaring Metrobus costs

Costs to build part of Bristol's controversial Metrobus network have soared by more than ^9m since the summer, a confidential report seen by Bristol24/7 reveals.

The Ashton Vale to Temple Meads (AVTM) route was estimated to cost ^51.2m in July. This overall cost was up from ^41.5m estimates made in 2011.

However, the report at City Hall produced for the mayor and cabinet members now says these costs have risen to about ^60m.

See full report: http://bristol247.co.uk/channel/news-comment/daily/transport/secret-report-reveals-soaring-metrobus-costs

[TonyK]

From Bristol 24/7:

Secret report reveals soaring Metrobus costs

Costs to build part of Bristol's controversial Metrobus network have soared by more than ^9m since the summer, a confidential report seen by Bristol24/7 reveals.

The Ashton Vale to Temple Meads (AVTM) route was estimated to cost ^51.2m in July. This overall cost was up from ^41.5m estimates made in 2011.

However, the report at City Hall produced for the mayor and cabinet members now says these costs have risen to about ^60m.

See full report: http://bristol247.co.uk/channel/news-comment/daily/transport/secret-report-reveals-soaring-metrobus-costs

Well, that's a shock. Didn't see that one coming, not in a million years. When does work actually start?

[Andrew1939 from West Oxon]

Its no shock - just about par for the course on these major bus or busway projects. The strategy seems to be to get a commitment for a project on the lowest cost estimate without adequate contingency so that later when the real much higher costs become clearer it is too late to cancel without having to fund a lot of abortive costs. I think this why the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) for rail projects now insist on the addition of a plus factor to estimates after the fiasco of the West Coast Main Line project of a few years ago. when cost estimates nearly doubled over just a few years. There is a campaign group in Oxfordshire pushing a monorail project between Witney and Oxford quoting an estimated cost of ^125M. Thaty sounds good but what would the eventual cost be if it were to go ahead on the basis of that cost estimate?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Well, that's a shock. Didn't see that one coming, not in a million years. When does work actually start?

Its no shock - just about par for the course on these major bus or busway projects.

Hmm. I rather think, Andrew1939 from West Oxon, that Four Track, Now! was posting somewhat  ...

[Red Squirrel]

From Bristol 24/7:

Bristol council admits risks over Metrobus
Bristol City Council has admitted the controversial Metrobus system contains a "number of risks" and was "never going to be easy or inexpensive", after Bristol24/7 revealed a secret report had shown costs for part of the network had soared since the summer...

...The spokesman added that a "unique agreement" with the Department for Transport allows Bristol City Council to reallocate funds within the programme, if required, to "ensure the full benefits of the Metrobus network will be realised".

A cynic might think that this allows them to cut back on some of the 'public realm improvement' aspects of this plan so that they've got sufficient funds to sort out the less desirable bits (e.g. a guided busway)...

[TonyK]

I'm sorry, Andrew1939 from West Oxon, I shouldn't do that!

In return for my misguided stab at sarcasm, I have been dealt bad karma (if that's what happens with karma). Network Rail are holding a drop-in session in Easton, to explain how the railway will be transformed into Four Track, Now! Surely, my life has been leading up to this golden opportunity to find answers to so many questions, followed by, or preceded by, one of them pints or so at the Sugar Loaf. But I'll wager that out of the 1617 members of this forum, there will only be one in Tenerife on that night. If anyone goes, ask how the bridge over Stapleton Road will be replaced, and report. I'll try to keep in touch by smartphone.

[JayMac]

I'll add the details to the forum's calendar FT,N! Should I be free that day I'll pop along as your proxy if you like.

Enjoy your holiday. I suspect there'll be a little more sunshine in Tenerife than will be found in the Sunshine Room of Easton Community Centre on November afternoon.

Event diarised: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14822.msg164311#msg164311

[TonyK]

Through the medium of Twitter, I have contacted Network Rail. There will be a further session in January, date TBA.

[Red Squirrel]

From Bristol 24/7:

Campaigners call for Metrobus ^2.4m buyout

A campaign group is calling on the mayor of Bristol to "pay off" North Somerset Council to the tune of ^2.4million to allow the city to drop the controversial Metrobus transport scheme.

Last month, Bristol24/7 exclusively revealed a secret report which showed how costs to build part of the controversial network have soared by more than ^9m since the summer.

Having studied the report, the Stop BRT2 group now say that the ^9.1m shortfall figure presented in the report is a "severe under-estimate" and is "not a full and honest portrayal of the complete shortfall by the (anonymous) officer who wrote the report".

The group is urging George Ferguson to consider paying North Somerset Council ^2.4m, its 20% share of the Metrobus ^12m preparation costs, to buy them out of the legal agreement between Bristol and North Somerset councils.

Pip Sheard from Stop BRT2 said George Ferguson and Bristol City Council were "headed towards a Metrobus financial meltdown".

"We urge him to cut his losses, settle any outstanding debt with North Somerset and dump the white elephant before its too late," she said.

In a direct call to Ferguson, she added: "Please listen to local residents who elected you. Your election vision promised us 'a city deal with Government that includes rail, tram and bus alternatives to the flawed BRT^▸ (Bus Rapid Transit) (Metrobus)' which you described  as a 'poor scheme looking for Government funding'.

"Open your eyes to the unfolding financial Metrobus fiasco in your own back yard and dump this scheme now before it is too late."