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devon_metro
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« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2009, 19:15:07 » |
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trolley can transfer between units.
What planet do you live in sometimes!!? |
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Btline
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« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2009, 19:41:03 » |
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What happens on a DOO▸ train them? They don't have guards. In fact my scenario would be better than a DOO train, as there would be one guard.
And why can't trolleys transfer between units at a station stop?
XC▸ don't split trains. Even if they did, the extra guard could simply join at the split point.
Don't get me wrong, the best thing to happen would be for a Voyager lengthening project. But the way things stand, it would be better for some 2x4 voyagers to reduce overcrowding. I am trying to put forward some ideas, there is no need to reply in such a way!
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grahame
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« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2009, 19:54:43 » |
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Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.
What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance. Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.
I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!
My goodness ... how times change. In my youth, we had "singles" in slam door coaches - 9 compartments each with six seats in a carriage. Oddly, fights didn't break out very often between the commuters  |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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dog box
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« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2009, 19:58:53 » |
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Lengthening Voyagers is i believe virtually impossible, due to the electronic systems involved
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All postings reflect my own personal views and opinions and are not intended to be, nor should be taken as official statements of first great western or first group policy
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Btline
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« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2009, 20:21:54 » |
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Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.
What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance. Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.
I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!
My goodness ... how times change. In my youth, we had "singles" in slam door coaches - 9 compartments each with six seats in a carriage. Oddly, fights didn't break out very often between the commuters Exactly, it seems that we can't cope these days. Just like we can't tell that a wet floor is slippery. This PC nonsense needs to stop. |
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paul7575
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« Reply #50 on: October 24, 2009, 20:23:15 » |
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XC▸ don't split trains. Even if they did, the extra guard could simply join at the split point.
Don't get me wrong, the best thing to happen would be for a Voyager lengthening project. But the way things stand, it would be better for some 2x4 voyagers to reduce overcrowding. I am trying to put forward some ideas, there is no need to reply in such a way!
'XC don't split trains. Even if they did...' Is that hedging your bets? Of course AXC» split/join trains en route. I've been on such trains at both Reading and Newcastle, where only one portion has carried on. The only mystery about it is there is nothing mentioned in the timetables. There are a some 2 x 4 car services - I was on one from Bournemouth to Southampton on Friday last. Again, there is no sensible way of predicting when they run... Paul |
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devon_metro
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« Reply #51 on: October 24, 2009, 20:24:52 » |
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Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.
What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance. Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.
I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!
My goodness ... how times change. In my youth, we had "singles" in slam door coaches - 9 compartments each with six seats in a carriage. Oddly, fights didn't break out very often between the commuters Exactly, it seems that we can't cope these days. Just like we can't tell that a wet floor is slippery. This PC nonsense needs to stop. Are you saying OAPs should be potentially subjected to a drunken brawl?? |
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6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
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« Reply #52 on: October 24, 2009, 20:26:03 » |
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first off regarding electrical systems that is no doubt correct but does anybody know the maximum number of coaches that can be added before it is an issue, second of all, 'doo' is for routes on which there are barriers at all stations and the need for ticket checks onboard is redundant... these services are short in comparison and are a totally different type of service, long distance intercity services are expected to have onboard customer services teams which can be reached with ease in order to assist if needed how can they do this if they are effectively sealed on another train during the journey? you will also notice that trains are now built so that you can walk threw them using double voyagers or any closed end dmu for that matter although due to suitable stock shortages is necessary is ultimately a step backwards on safety service and convenience
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paul7575
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« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2009, 20:28:53 » |
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Lengthening Voyagers is i believe virtually impossible, due to the electronic systems involved
It's only impossible because no-one will buy the necessary intermediate coaches. Why else do you think the driving cars are A and F? What you may have heard is that they cannot be remarshalled quickly without altering the software, but the Meridians have proved that shortening and lengthening is achievable. It isn't that long ago that people were saying that the Hull Trains 222s couldn't possibly multiple with the EMT» ones, but it just needed new software. Paul |
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paul7575
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« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2009, 20:36:25 » |
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'doo' is for routes on which there are barriers at all stations and the need for ticket checks onboard is redundant...
Not so - I can think of a number of DOO▸ routes in the London area where there aren't barriers at all the stations, although many more stations are currently in the process of being fitted. Another example is Chiltern - they are DOO south of Banbury with some ungated stations. There are many prerequsites for DOO, but I don't believe ticket barriers are one of them. Paul |
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readytostart
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« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2009, 20:48:46 » |
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Couple of point from XC▸ paper work, where doube voyagers operate, the guard must travel in the rear set, if there is an assisting Train Manager on board then they will travel in the front set, the guard will retain responsibility for train protection and emergency arrangements, along with what people see as the guards job such as train despatch. If there is no assisting guard but a member of catering staff, then the catering staff should travel in the front unit as they are trained in how to stop the train and make a crew call. In the worst case scenario of a double voyager with only one Train Manager and a driver then the guard is qualified to swap units in an emergency at the lineside, whilst I know passengers hate announcements, if they took the time to read the safety notices as requested, then they should know how to stop the train in an emergency.
As regards to Voyager lengths, it's handy to remember that in the West Country HSTs▸ have grandfather rights, 220/221s don't. Here are the general restrictions for Voyager operation:
North of Edinburgh: Only single units can operate, If in multiple the rear unit must be locked out of use unless special working instructions are issued.
South of Edinburgh: A maximum of nine vehicles may be available for passenger use, a number of stations may have platforms that are more restrictive.
South of Birmingham: A maximum of ten vehicles may be available for passenger use, some stations may have platforms that are more restrictive.
West of Exeter: A maximum of eight vehicles may be available for public use. Additional vehicles must be locked out of use unless special working instructions are issued.
Wrest of Plymouth: A maximum of seven vehicles may be available for passenger use. Additional vehicles must be locked out of use unless special working instructions are issued.
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super tm
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« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2009, 20:53:38 » |
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Yes, a guard is needed in each voyager.
What if someone falls ill, needs an ambulance. Or a fight breaks out needing police assisstance etc.
I think it would be pretty risky having a rammed voyager, with no guard to offer assisstance and to patrol the safety of the train AT ALL TIMES!!!
No they dont. What about 142 with no corridor connections. There is no requirement for a guard to be in each voyager. |
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Btline
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« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2009, 23:29:01 » |
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Exactly, so so far there is no need for double staff! So it appears I am well and truly on planet Earth.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2009, 00:09:45 » |
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Exactly, so so far there is no need for double staff! So it appears I am well and truly on planet Earth.
Please, expand on your trolley swapping situation, I'd be interested to see any things you've over looked such as extended station dwell due to unloading and reloading of the trolley via ramp. |
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JayMac
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« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2009, 01:41:13 » |
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Exactly, so so far there is no need for double staff! So it appears I am well and truly on planet Earth.
Please, expand on your trolley swapping situation, I'd be interested to see any things you've over looked such as extended station dwell due to unloading and reloading of the trolley via ramp. Two trollies? One cash float? |
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
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