Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 12:35 29 Mar 2024
* Delays at Dover as millions begin Easter getaway
- Attempted murder charge after man stabbed on train
- KFC Nigeria sorry after disabled diner refused service
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
09:30 Weymouth to Gloucester
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
13:21 Newbury to Bedwyn
13:48 Bedwyn to Newbury
14:12 Newbury to Bedwyn
14:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
14:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
15:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
15:50 Bedwyn to Newbury
16:15 Newbury to Bedwyn
16:23 Westbury to Swindon
16:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
17:36 Swindon to Westbury
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
21:16 Westbury to Swindon
22:30 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
13:10 Gloucester to Weymouth
13:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
13:55 Paignton to London Paddington
14:36 London Paddington to Paignton
15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:10 Penzance to London Paddington
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:20 Penzance to London Paddington
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
12:15 Penzance to London Paddington
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:15 Plymouth to London Paddington
14:03 London Paddington to Penzance
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 12:52:16 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[103] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[102] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[56] Travel for free on the m2 metrobus - Bristol - 4,5,6 April 202...
[44] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[41] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[40] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: "Train firms seek longer contracts" (BBC News 30/10/09)  (Read 9250 times)
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18895



View Profile
« on: October 30, 2009, 03:45:09 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Train companies have called for longer rail franchises to allow them to provide better quality services. The Association of Train Operating Companies (Atoc) says agreements of 15-20 years would encourage managers to improve services and boost investment. Currently bidders compete for deals typically lasting seven years.

A Department for Transport spokesman said the government was "committed to putting passengers first" when negotiating new franchises. "We are constantly looking at ways to further improve our railways and this includes considering improvements to the rail franchising system," he said.

'Micro-management'

Atoc says longer franchises could attract more private finance into the rail sector as operators would have more time to benefit from investment. The organisation also says longer deals would allow rail managers to focus on improving services for passengers rather than concentrating on bidding for the next franchise.

Atoc also calls for an end to "inappropriate micro-management" by civil servants. It suggests the government should concentrate on the results it wishes to see from franchises, such as improved passenger satisfaction and punctuality, rather than specific details, like the number of ticket machines.

The Atoc report also addresses the risks train companies face in an economic downturn when passenger numbers fall. The government took away the franchise for the East Coast Main Line from National Express when the company made huge losses and failed to convince ministers to revise its terms. Atoc suggests linking franchise payments to GDP output and beginning revenue support earlier in the franchise.

'Passenger satisfaction'

Atoc chief executive Michael Roberts said there was a "window of opportunity" to improve the system. He said: "By implementing a package of focused reforms in time for the next franchises which have to be let, the government can increase the scope for train companies to bring innovation and commercial nous into improving the railways. Equally we would keep the existing mechanisms to deal with any company that fails to perform. Terminating a franchise under our proposals would be no more difficult for a longer franchise than a shorter one."

Rail user groups are calling for passengers' needs to be at the heart of any future changes. Ashwin Kumar, Passenger Focus director, said: "We believe passenger satisfaction targets should be a key part of future franchise contracts as well as a continued focus on improving punctuality."

Shadow transport secretary Theresa Villiers said Atoc's suggestions supported Conservative proposals made earlier this year. She said Conservative plans for longer franchises were "the only credible alternative to Labour's flawed franchising process".

Liberal Democrat transport spokesman Norman Baker said train passengers have been getting a "raw deal" from the way franchises have been set up. "We need to grow the railways. Longer franchises will get money into the industry by giving companies an incentive to invest in real, long-term improvements," he said.
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6293


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2009, 06:39:13 »

I think its now broadly accepted across the board that longer franchises are the way ahead. Chiltern is a good example of how a longer franchise can work. Short micromanaged franchises are a waste of time and money because of the cost of the franchise process that has to take place every few years.
Logged
Btline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4782



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2009, 09:51:39 »

I agree. Why on Earth was the South Central franchise re-done again this year? It will only last until 2015 or so when Thameslink starts proper. It would have been far better for Govia to have been given an extension without the costs of the bidding. They were doing an excellent job.

Longer franchises are good, i.e. Chiltern, but there must still be a way for the gov to demand that the keys are handed back if their performance is bad/ they remove lots of staff/trains/services.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2009, 10:29:10 »

I agree. Why on Earth was the South Central franchise re-done again this year?

To include Gatwick Express?

and the reason for it to go to 2015 is then to include Thameslink....at which point a long franchise might get offered.
Logged
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 10:45:13 »


Longer franchises are good, i.e. Chiltern, but there must still be a way for the gov to demand that the keys are handed back if their performance is bad/ they remove lots of staff/trains/services.

I agree but any longtime franchise must include substantial investment plans by the TOCS.

So for a twenty year FGW (First Great Western) franchise I would expect more coaches, more trains, e.g. Melksahm at least every 2 hours, redoubling Swindon Kemble as per Chiltern.

If Networkrail/Crossrail is to electrify to at least Reading then the TOC (Train Operating Company) could pay for Greenford, Windsor Marlow and Henley branches to be electrified. This would pay for itself with a unified very reliable electric fleet cheaper runing costs. If the TOC were to lose the franchise after this investment then some form of payment could be made to compensate for teh loss.

One thing the DFT (Department for Transport) ought to control is the increase to walk on fares and season ticket fares to Inflation - 1.

All other cheaper fares to be less than walkon with a common universal set of restrictions for non advanced set train tickets. Also to look at cheap last minute walk up fares as I believe  SNCF (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) do on TGVs (Train a Grande Vitesse) where you can buy tickets for the train in platform from a machine on the platform.

Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 12:22:21 »


To include Gatwick Express?


Don't think so, Gatwick express had already been merged into the existing SN franchise by variation procedures a year or so back.

Paul
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18895



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 14:16:46 »


....and the reason for it to go to 2015 is then to include Thameslink....at which point a long franchise might get offered.

Lets hope that both Southern and FCC (First Capital Connect) meet their performance targets then, (or both fail - no good if one succeeds and the other doesn't!). Performance related extensions could see both franchises extended to 2017. FCC also have a potential year extra to 2018 at the discretion of the DfT» (Department for Transport - about).
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 14:35:55 »

If one fails & the other succeeds, it'll probably end up being similar to the 'old' FGW (First Great Western) and Thames Trains......and their 'merger', prior to the whole franchise coming up two / three years later.
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5316


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 14:41:25 »

I'd agree the franchise dates have to end together, so some possible extensions for performance reasons probably won't be allowed to happen, ie they'll be negotiated away. As pointed out previously, Thameslink key output 2 results in a significant number of existing routes being transferred from the existing Southern and Southeastern franchises to the combined Thameslink and GN areas. 

The fairly recent precedent was the carve up of the former Central/Silverlink areas where various franchise end dates were tweaked so that LM (London Midland - recent franchise), EMT» (East Midlands Trains - about), New XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), LO etc were all brought into alignment.  Not forgetting certain former XC routes were landed on TPE (Trans Pennine Express) and VWC in a fairly sudden manner.

With Thameslink taking on so many existing services I could surmise the current SN and SE franchises even being combined into one, with some self contained London area services being transferred to LO for a later phase of growth.  The Wimbledon - Sutton loop being a good example of the latter, as it isn't going to be part of Thameslink by then.  Of course that is all for a future Thameslink consultation in a few years time...

Paul
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18895



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 14:52:15 »

Well if all these franchises come into alignment - maybe add in c2c, NXEA (National Express East Anglia) and SWT (South West Trains) when they come up for renewal - can anyone think of a name for this super-franchise? What we will have is a network of lines in the south-east....


(Of course for completeness sake I should include Chiltern in this fantasy super-franchise, but they seem to be doing a good job on their own!)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 15:18:44 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 15:17:13 »

British Rail?
Logged
Btline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4782



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2009, 15:52:21 »

I think that SWT (South West Trains), SN and SE could be merged into a "Southern" region.

The only loss would be the competition for Chichester commuters, who have seen great improvements in journey time on the Arun Valley line. Basically, many people were driving to Havant onto SWT; so SN cut stops to shorten the journey by about 12 minutes. This is a rare example of where privatisation has worked.

So perhaps a SW and SE region. I think that ALL suburban London routes should become LO, with full Oyster (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) validity.
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 12334


View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2009, 15:55:14 »

I think that ALL suburban London routes should become LO, with full Oyster (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) validity.

That will become a reality within a decade, I reckon. Probably sooner.

Later: Oops, read that as all south-of-the-river suburban. Maybe longer for all.
Logged
welshman
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 277


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 20:53:14 »

Longer contracts is only half the battle.  ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) have until 2018 but their proposal at the outset to buy 22 new trainsets was turned down by WAG» (Welsh Assembly Government - about).  Strangely, 22 150s were cascaded from ScotRail instead and they had the new ones.   Huh

This is classic micro-management.  Admittedly ATW is probably more heavily subsidised than any other operator but aren't all those Pacers going to start breaking down in 2012?
Logged
stebbo
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 445


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2009, 20:53:34 »

As some of you will have gathered I'm not really left wing, but on this I say bring back British Rail (oh and CEGB and a few others)
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page