Truro Station refurbishment and installation of ticket barriers (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

Does this sort of thing cause a delay? (note: the tender moment is rail side):

No, but it was noon and sunny when they began to say goodbye. The trains came and went regardless.

[bobm]

Oh and what about Granny? How do you help her with her luggage from outside a gate line?

I think that is more the point. With fewer station staff about helping relatives with luggage is a real issue. However I've not had a problem when I've asked at a gate line. I was even asked if I wanted to go up and meet bignosemac and Grahame on the platform at Swindon on Saturday before the STEAM meet but I declined!

[devon_metro]

I think the main problem with Truro is the fact that the platforms are more limited in space than say Bristol Temple Meads.

[JayMac]

So it's a safety issue then?

What about the countless number of stations without gate lines that have similar platform space and footfall?

I know the trend is toward gating more and more stations, but I was under the impression this was for revenue protection purposes. Not to prevent folk seeing loved ones off or to control numbers accessing the platforms. Yes, in times of 'unusually large passenger flows', but not routinely.

The pragmatic approach taken by most staff on the ground is the right one. Taking the news item at face value it seems that some at Truro are being a little over zealous. And that's not helped when a spokesman from their employer appears to endorse their actions. I appreciate that stations are private property to which the public have access but in most locations staff will happily let you go rail side to help family or friends or just wish them bon voyage. It'd be a pretty heartless member of staff who told little Tommy he couldn't go onto the platform to meet or see off his visiting Grandma.

What is Truro gate line staff's stance on rail enthusiasts? NRE^‡(resolve) says that, "All Britain's Train Operating Companies and Network Rail welcome rail enthusiasts to their stations." Perhaps if Granny is not allowed to have her family help with the luggage, a nearby spotter can be pressed into portering duties.

That spotter could also deputise for the boyfriend seeing off his girlfriend, if said boyfriend had been refused access to the platforms. 

[Louis94]

If we could guarantee everyone seeing someone off on the platform would not board the train to help with luggage and would stand behind the yellow line at departure time I don't think we'd have a problem.

Plymouth allows people to see off relatives/friends on the platform and there have been countless incidents where people have delayed the train because they have boarded to help with luggage or are ignoring dispatchers calls to stand behind the yellow line - and we certainly get more dwell time than Truro!

People boarding to help with luggage is especially an issue when the service is busy, and as they say there goodbyes on the train they slow down the boarding through blocking the aisle right at the end of the coach.

[JayMac]

Then you inform and educate. Notices and direction from staff is all that's needed. Using the gate line as a means of preventing all but those travelling from accessing the platforms, because they may be a safety problem or cause delays, is taking a hammer to crack a nut.

And I return to my earlier point. You're free to access the platforms at un-gated stations. Why do the public at stations with barriers need protecting from themselves? The much much busier Temple Meads has never, in my experience, prevented family/friends from accessing the platforms to greet/see off loved ones. Even when the RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) are about. I've worked near the gate line at Temple Meads for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (via agency) and I was specifically instructed that if any one approached me and asked if it was OK to meet or see off a friend/relative I was to say 'yes' and tell them to speak with the gate line staff who would gladly let them through.

Why should Plymouth or Truro be any different? Are Devon and Cornwall family and friends not to be trusted to use common sense?

It's an over-reaction to a minor problem. If there really are 'countless incidents' at Plymouth (which to me seems like hyperbole with little basis in fact) why are Plymouth gate line still allowing friends/relatives through?

Evidence that it is an over-reaction can be found in the 'West Briton' article. Folk are buying tickets to Perranwall to bypass the over zealous gate line staff at Truro. Perhaps FGW's response is less about safety or timekeeping and more about the free revenue they are getting.

[Super Guard]

I've caused delay by stopping a train more than once, due to a "well-wisher" starting to lean against a departing train, or to decide it was a good idea to hold the hand of someone hanging out of a window and run along the platform!   

Another example, being someone getting on a train that was sat in the station for 3minutes to help someone, was in no hurry to get off and then got locked on the train.  If the next stop wasn't too far, then it's not the end of the World granted, but in this case, the service was non-stop Exeter-Reading and the chappy in question was rueing parking in the 20 min free parking .

I'm not saying we should remove the romantic farewell from the Railway, but it is frightening how some people lose all common-sense when at a station.

[Louis94]

Then you inform and educate. Notices and direction from staff is all that's needed. Using the gate line as a means of preventing all but those travelling from accessing the platforms, because they may be a safety problem or cause delays, is taking a hammer to crack a nut.

And I return to my earlier point. You're free to access the platforms at un-gated stations. Why do the public at stations with barriers need protecting from themselves? The much much busier Temple Meads has never, in my experience, prevented family/friends from accessing the platforms to greet/see off loved ones. Even when the RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) are about. I've worked near the gate line at Temple Meads for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (via agency) and I was specifically instructed that if any one approached me and asked if it was OK to meet or see off a friend/relative I was to say 'yes' and tell them to speak with the gate line staff who would gladly let them through.

Why should Plymouth or Truro be any different? Are Devon and Cornwall family and friends not to be trusted to use common sense?

It's an over-reaction to a minor problem. If there really are 'countless incidents' at Plymouth (which to me seems like hyperbole with little basis in fact) why are Plymouth gate line still allowing friends/relatives through?

Evidence that it is an over-reaction can be found in the 'West Briton' article. Folk are buying tickets to Perranwall to bypass the over zealous gate line staff at Truro. Perhaps FGW's response is less about safety or timekeeping and more about the free revenue they are getting.

You can inform and educate "well-wishers" as much as you like, there is nothing you can do, there will always be a better idiot!

[vacmanfan]

Then you inform and educate. Notices and direction from staff is all that's needed. Using the gate line as a means of preventing all but those travelling from accessing the platforms, because they may be a safety problem or cause delays, is taking a hammer to crack a nut.

And I return to my earlier point. You're free to access the platforms at un-gated stations. Why do the public at stations with barriers need protecting from themselves? The much much busier Temple Meads has never, in my experience, prevented family/friends from accessing the platforms to greet/see off loved ones. Even when the RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) are about. I've worked near the gate line at Temple Meads for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (via agency) and I was specifically instructed that if any one approached me and asked if it was OK to meet or see off a friend/relative I was to say 'yes' and tell them to speak with the gate line staff who would gladly let them through.

Why should Plymouth or Truro be any different? Are Devon and Cornwall family and friends not to be trusted to use common sense?

It's an over-reaction to a minor problem. If there really are 'countless incidents' at Plymouth (which to me seems like hyperbole with little basis in fact) why are Plymouth gate line still allowing friends/relatives through?

Evidence that it is an over-reaction can be found in the 'West Briton' article. Folk are buying tickets to Perranwall to bypass the over zealous gate line staff at Truro. Perhaps FGW's response is less about safety or timekeeping and more about the free revenue they are getting.

Firstly, do not call the gateline staff at Truro "Over Zealous"..  They are not, they are simply doing as they have been asked.  Would you appreciate being called a "Geek" instead of a "Railway Enthusiast"??  No.  Leave the name calling at the door please. 
Secondly, Truro is a very unique location.  It has numerous access points and very few staff compared to other stations with gatelines.  The problem before Truro had barriers was that there would normally be MORE people waving off those people travelling on the up platform.  This caused numerous problems when dispatching the train due to people leaning against the windows, running alongside the train, touching hands through the droplight window, getting stuck on the train when putting luggage on for others and then leaning out putting doors on catch once the CDL^▸ (Central Door Locking) had been activated... To name but a few.  There was also LOTS of delay minutes attributed to Truro due to these reasons. 
Platform passes were tried when the gateline was first put into operation, however, this was massively abused and people used these as a means to travel.
Pardon me for being OVER ZEALOUS but it seems that it made the station far more secure and efficient by introducing a no-access rule.  Very few delay minutes are now attributed to Truro which has saved FGW money.  More staff are able to assist people due to the increase in staff at the station and anyone who needs help and is not able to have help from a member of staff always has someone let through to help them. 
Whilst as an enthusiast it is easy to say "Educate and Inform", Joe Public is not interested in being educated only simply in waving frantically at a train. 

I believe that the strict rules will be relaxed in the very near future but it will not be come one come all... It doesnt take the whole family to help one person on with one bag... It someone needs assistance I agree that they should get it. 

I would also like to mention that the public aren't always the victims here.  The amount of abuse I have seen the gateline staff suffer from Joe Public over not being able to waltz on to the station is nothing short of disgraceful.  You certainly wouldnt walk into their place of work and be able to act like that.  Also when people request to come on to meet people from the down train (but have no idea where on an 8 carriage train that person is sitting) they wander up and down the platform looking for somebody when they are outside wandering round the car park looking for the person picking them up.

In closing it needs some common sense from BOTH sides, not just the guys at Truro. 

[JayMac]

I wasn't aware that using the term over zealous was name calling. I see as I find and that was my interpretation of the story. I did not give the term capital initials (and later the whole phrase in CAPS) as you have done in your response to justify your view that this is a name rather than observation. Now, if I'd used the 'J' word then maybe you would have a point. I didn't. As for being called a 'Geek', I could argue the subtext is that this is what you are doing anyway, but by dressing it up as a question (with two question marks just in case anyone isn't sure) you can neatly sidestep any accusation yourself of name calling. As it happens I really couldn't care less what I'm called even when it's dressed up as a question. See? I can jump to what may be an incorrect conclusion by twisting words as well.

You're defence of the staff and policy at Truro is admirable, but I ask again what is so special and unique about access there? There are busier stations on the network, with equally challenging layouts many of which are not barriered. My experience of those that are is that gate line staff are happy to allow folk to see off and greet friends and family. Of course if the situation is dangerous due to crowding then by all means use the gate line to ensure only those travelling access the platforms, but this wouldn't be the case all day every day at Truro surely?

[TonyK]

I took bignosemac's advice, when I dropped my daughter and grandson at BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)). I asked if I could accompany them to the train, to help with the rather large amount of kit needed to transport an 8-month-old anywhere beyond the front door. No problem Sir, ask for me if you have trouble getting back through the gate, said the pleasant lady. 

[bobm]

Least she called you sir, nothing gets my goat more than being called 'mate'.  Seriously though - it is like most things on the railway, and indeed life, if you have a reasonable request and you ask politely you usually get the answer you want.

[vacman]

Bignosemac claiming the moral highground as on all forums as usual, Truro gateline is operated in the way that all stations should be operated, quite rightly my fan (and i still dont know who it is!!) has pointed out that the delay minutes at Truro have disappeared since the gates went in, I'm not going to get into an argument but other stations appear to be adopting a similar stance, when 5 people are let through to see of one person it causes congestion at the gateline when they all wonder back with the influx that has just come off the train when they try to push the gate open or follow someone else through and then get stuck and blame everyone but themselves, most arguments i have seen at gatelines is with people who aren't travelling and seem to think they can abuse the staff however they see fit.

[grahame]

Some random thoughts / comments ...

1. National Conditions of carriage state: "Unless you are disabled or have reduced mobility and have made arrangements in advance for assistance, you should be able to manage your luggage without additional help."

2. It's always harder to tighten up on a previously more permissive set of rules than to decide rules from afresh

3. I wonder if the particular references to delays at Truro caused by too many departing wellwishers are concentrated on trains that travel beyond Taunton?  Do Falmouth, Penzance, or Plymouth locals also suffer?

4. """Would you appreciate being called a "Geek" instead of a "Railway Enthusiast"??  No.  Leave the name calling at the door please.""" Personally I would be delighted to be called a geek; not sure what the problem is with that.  But I'm not a railway enthusiast in the classic mold!

5. """Whilst as an enthusiast it is easy to say "Educate and Inform", Joe Public is not interested in being educated only simply in waving frantically at a train."""  Hmmm - that may apply to some, but I've often found that most Joe Publics are quite happy to be educated / directed if it is truly education - giving a reasonable explanation of why.  Not just "because I say so", nor just "it's rules". In the area that I live and where I travel, most FGW^▸ (First Great Western) customer facing staff are excellent at providing such information, it's appreciated, and results in co-operation.Yes - there are odd "cases".  Is Truro so different?

[Snapper]

For the past couple of weeks I have been a regular passenger using Truro station and can endorse the view that it has special problems for staff managing the platforms.  This had grown steadily worse as the University at Falmouth got into its stride and the Falmouth unit disgorged 50 plus teenagers onto the already crowded platforms every half hour.  At least the barriers have stopped the rampant fare dodging which was a feature of this service.

I also use the station for railway photography.  "Geek" really doesn't work as I am no good with numbers, "Veg" is plain insulting, so enthusiast is probably about right.

I always make a point of asking for staff approval at stations and have yet to be refused but, although it isn't the case at Truro, it sometimes seems that the ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) or BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) "Guidelines For Enthusiasts" don't reach frontline staff.  Some of their comments suggest they are making up rules as they go along rather than putting the responsibility on the photographer to follow the Guidelines.

This may not be a general view but I feel there is a responsibility on photographers not to abuse their privilege by intruding on travellers' privacy or snapping staff in unguarded moments then posting the pictures on public web sites.

I shall be back tomorrow to try and capture an image of the Burngullow-Long Rock fuel train whose erratic timing has, so far, eluded me.