18:33 London Paddington to Oxford - HST or Turbo - and alternative trains

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From FGW^▸ (First Great Western) live updates:

18:33 London Paddington to Oxford due 20:14
This train has been revised. This train will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 8. This is due to an earlier train fault.
Last Updated: 09/11/2009 16:02

Edit note: Topic heading amended, to reflect subsequent discussion.

[argg]

This is turning out to be a regular alteration, many times leaving from platform 13 rather than 5.

Any insiders know why this is happening regularly?

A service which is timetabled to be HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and is usually full, squeezing into a 3 car turbo is "interesting" to say the least.  I'm sure the regular FC^‡(resolve) travellers on this service are less than impressed!

Thanks in advance for any insight

[devon_metro]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) low on HST^▸ (High Speed Train) powercars.

Should see some of the faults!

[johoare]

I got this train on Monday and as this thread isn't totally recent I only just put two and two together and realised that it isn't a one off...

I got to Paddington two minute before the 18.18 departure and when I saw 18.33 was showing as on time decided not to run for the earlier train as that's never sensible. However at 18.20 (4 minutes later) it changed to delayed.. This is because the 18.25 stop everywhere service was leaving from the front of platform 13 I think.. I guess it's the same train brought in and then seperated to form two trains..

Once the 18.25 had gone we were trusted to get on the right train and so platform 13 was announced for the 18.33 which resulted in a lot of running from lots of people (not me!).. However once we were all crammed onto the 3 carriages and there was no more room, we still had to let the heathrow connect go from platform 12 and then by the time we left a couple of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were deemed to be more important than us so we let them go too.. Eventually we arrived in Maidenhead 10 minutes late.. Since Paddington to Maidenhead is timetabled for 19 minutes on this time this isn't at all good..

In two weeks time I'm permanently back in London commuting again and was thinking the 18.33 will be my regular train home.. If it's going to be like that every day then I don't think it'll be much fun...

[devon_metro]

I got this train on Monday and as this thread isn't totally recent I only just put two and two together and realised that it isn't a one off...

I got to Paddington two minute before the 18.18 departure and when I saw 18.33 was showing as on time decided not to run for the earlier train as that's never sensible. However at 18.20 (4 minutes later) it changed to delayed.. This is because the 18.25 stop everywhere service was leaving from the front of platform 13 I think.. I guess it's the same train brought in and then seperated to form two trains..

Once the 18.25 had gone we were trusted to get on the right train and so platform 13 was announced for the 18.33 which resulted in a lot of running from lots of people (not me!).. However once we were all crammed onto the 3 carriages and there was no more room, we still had to let the heathrow connect go from platform 12 and then by the time we left a couple of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were deemed to be more important than us so we let them go too.. Eventually we arrived in Maidenhead 10 minutes late.. Since Paddington to Maidenhead is timetabled for 19 minutes on this time this isn't at all good..

In two weeks time I'm permanently back in London commuting again and was thinking the 18.33 will be my regular train home.. If it's going to be like that every day then I don't think it'll be much fun...

The other option travelling to Maidenhead is the 1750 (to Worcester). It is a fairly safe bet of an 8 carriage HST, except when things go badly wrong and its first stop Maidenhead (JT 19mins)

[Mookiemoo]

I got this train on Monday and as this thread isn't totally recent I only just put two and two together and realised that it isn't a one off...

I got to Paddington two minute before the 18.18 departure and when I saw 18.33 was showing as on time decided not to run for the earlier train as that's never sensible. However at 18.20 (4 minutes later) it changed to delayed.. This is because the 18.25 stop everywhere service was leaving from the front of platform 13 I think.. I guess it's the same train brought in and then seperated to form two trains..

Once the 18.25 had gone we were trusted to get on the right train and so platform 13 was announced for the 18.33 which resulted in a lot of running from lots of people (not me!).. However once we were all crammed onto the 3 carriages and there was no more room, we still had to let the heathrow connect go from platform 12 and then by the time we left a couple of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) were deemed to be more important than us so we let them go too.. Eventually we arrived in Maidenhead 10 minutes late.. Since Paddington to Maidenhead is timetabled for 19 minutes on this time this isn't at all good..

In two weeks time I'm permanently back in London commuting again and was thinking the 18.33 will be my regular train home.. If it's going to be like that every day then I don't think it'll be much fun...

The other option travelling to Maidenhead is the 1750 (to Worcester). It is a fairly safe bet of an 8 carriage HST, except when things go badly wrong and its first stop Maidenhead (JT 19mins)

Agreed - most of the time its at least 2+7 and sometimes even has a mini buffet

[johoare]

Thanks for the information but unfortunately 17.50 is going to be too early for me.. That's about the earliest time I'll be able to leave work and I work half hour or so from Paddington..

[BBM]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) low on HST^▸ (High Speed Train) powercars.

Should see some of the faults!

Since the start of the new timetable I've noticed that the 07:50 Paddington-Oxford is often a seven-car Turbo formation, something which is normally very rare on FGW services. Is this scheduled or is it a temporary measure while there's a shortage of HSTs? It's a pity they can't find 7 cars for the 17:50 or the 18:33 when needed!

[ChrisB]

THat may be a way of getting otherwise ecs back to Oxford sidings....

[Worcester_Passenger]

The 17:50 to Worcester has been flagged up on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s live updates as being reduced to a Turbo on a lot of occasions since Christmas - probably about half of the time.

[willc]

While putting a Turbo on the 17.50 may not fill one's heart with joy (it happened again tonight) - and I say that as someone who uses it to get home four days a week on average - it makes a lot of sense when there is a stock shortage, especially beyond Oxford, where Friday is probably the only night you will have more than 150 people on board heading on to the Cotswold Line. Typically there are only a couple of dozen left past Moreton-in-Marsh, so it's pretty hard to justify using a 500-seat HST^▸ (High Speed Train) if most of those seats will be filled for far longer on another duty. It wasn't by accident that the then 17.51 saw the last Adelante working on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) last March.

[Mookiemoo]

While putting a Turbo on the 17.50 may not fill one's heart with joy (it happened again tonight) - and I say that as someone who uses it to get home four days a week on average - it makes a lot of sense when there is a stock shortage, especially beyond Oxford, where Friday is probably the only night you will have more than 150 people on board heading on to the Cotswold Line. Typically there are only a couple of dozen left past Moreton-in-Marsh, so it's pretty hard to justify using a 500-seat HST^▸ (High Speed Train) if most of those seats will be filled for far longer on another duty. It wasn't by accident that the then 17.51 saw the last Adelante working on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) last March.

Ok - I am one of the biggest complainers from the midlands but ..........

I agree - the 1751 north or morteton is a joke HOWEVER there is a reason for that.......

Once you get beyond Moreton it is as close (in reality) to 10-15 minutes behind the 1822 as is damn it.  So....for example when I was in slough - I had to leave work nearly 45 minutes earlier to get to  WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) 10-15 earlier. 

No one sensible going to Malvern and beyond would use it since you change at WOS to connect with ..... the 1822 which stops at all the same stations other than Shipton.

I happen to use it now only because I NORMALLY get the 1738 from crowthorne that gets to Reading timetabled 1754 - three minutes after the 1722 is due to leave.  2-3 out of 5 days I actually make the 1722 because either my turbo doesnt need the make up time OR the 1722 is late leaving reading (I know once I did delay it slightly by flinging open a door in G just before the SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) kicked in(saw the TM^‡(resolve) going to hit the buttons as I raced to the train so dropped everything around the posters) to stop it locking so I could load on my bike and my shopping - hey I'm human and I put up with enough crap that is not my fault!).

The point is.............Going to oxford a turbo is acceptable - going to Moreton, not so.

The PROBLEM is that when this is last minute substituted it is often a 165.  Even if its a 166 - first class REALLY get a bum deal. 

IF I get the 1751 AND it shows up as a turbo - I just go sit in upper crust for half an hour - it really isnt worth it.

FGW need to (1) decide if its a WOS service or not.  If it is (2) guarantee a HST and if its not (3) just terminate the damn thing at Moreton

[IndustryInsider]

While putting a Turbo on the 17.50 may not fill one's heart with joy (it happened again tonight) - and I say that as someone who uses it to get home four days a week on average - it makes a lot of sense when there is a stock shortage, especially beyond Oxford, where Friday is probably the only night you will have more than 150 people on board heading on to the Cotswold Line.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) need to (1) decide if its a WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) service or not.  If it is (2) guarantee a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and if its not (3) just terminate the damn thing at Moreton

It also presumably means that another peak hour service from Paddington goes short formed to release the Turbo which at that time of night isn't good news whatever train it is! I saw it leave Paddington tonight - probably about 30-40 punters having to stand (though I expect nobody had to beyond Maidenhead).

As for FA's Option 3, that would sure leave a gaping hole in the evening service back from Worcester...

[willc]

If a Turbo is acceptable to Oxford, then it's just as acceptable to Charlbury, a dozen minutes later, where I reckon getting on for half the people on board after Oxford are leaving - and that's always been the case on the service in this slot for the eight years or so I've been using it, no matter what type of train is provided, from a two-car 165, to an Adelante (it must be about time to start a campaign to bring them back) or an HST^▸ (High Speed Train).

Not forgetting a few of us join at Oxford for a shortish journey, so aren't that bothered, because for most people some sort of train is better than no train. And that's the judgment call someone at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) has to make when they find themselves an HST short at Paddington at 5.30pm. The heavily loaded Bristol or Cardiff train will always win that argument.

While it's easy to say just cut it short at Moreton, I'm not sure someone who just misses the 17.22 at Paddington is going to be that chuffed to be told the next train isn't for an hour, when there has been some sort of plan B available for many years, though it was a tight squeak back when this service was the halts train and left Paddington a matter of minutes behind the old 17.0-something to battle its way up the relief line to Didcot.

Why does it go to Worcester? Because there has been a train to Worcester in that slot for a very long time. It used to cover the stops the preceding 17.XX train skipped and also allowed people from the skipped stations to pick up the 18.XX if they wanted to go west of Worcester. That role rather got lost with the decision in recent years to try to provide a more evenly spaced pattern of evening calls at Hanborough, Honeybourne and Pershore, with the 17.22 and 18.22 stopping, while the 17.50 gives Hanborough and Honeybourne a miss.

It might well be a more attractive proposition if it connected with something in Worcester, instead of just missing a Malvern working, but until redoubling is completed - and the mess that is Worcester is sorted out - the timetable at this time of the day is always going to be an ugly compromise.

I might add that looking at the loadings on the 17.22, 18.22 and - for the past year, since it has gone on to Hereford - the 19.22, people heading beyond Worcester seem to prefer a through service to changing, with the added complication of whether it's a Shrub Hill or Foregate Street connection presumably having something to do with that.

[johoare]

I got this train again yesterday (wed 27th jan). This time it was on platform 11.. Still a 3 car turbo (I think)... But on platform 12 was the 18.33 Heathrow connect service.. Even though everyone was on our train a good 5 minutes before departure (even the driver... we know he was definitely there as we had to wait for him to arrive to be allowed on the train).. the 18.33 stop everywhere Heathrow connect was allowed to leave before us...even though we were first stop Maidenhead.

The end result was that we arrived at Maidenhead 10 minutes late again.. Now I'm sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western) doesn't mind too much as their statistics are done on the final destination I think, and I think there is enough padding between London and Oxford to easily make that time up..

However it is a little pointless timetabling a 19 minute journey (it's scheduled to arrive at 18.52) if they are going to do things like that..

I will start using this train regularly the week after next, so maybe my two trips have just been plain unlucky.. I do hope so