The future of Hayle station

[whole diary]

[richard bickford]

Hayle has services specified in both the Greater Western and Cross Country franchaises so they are not about to dissapear.

Don' think we'll even see the back of Coombe or even Lelant Saltings (after the St Erth Park and Ride goes live).

Would be interesting to know how many people buy a Hayle - St Ives ticket but only travel on the St Ives branch. Thought it was a well known local trick to do that and avoid buying an 'expensive' branchline ticket.

Hayle - St Ives Off Peak Return ^2.90
St ives Branch Ranger ^4.00

Even with a Devon and Cornwall Railcard goving 50% Off on the branch it is still cheaper to buy a ticket to Hayle.

[STATION MASTER]

not many travel from hayle to st ives because the connections are not very good. 10.07 arrives st erth 10.11 branch depts 10.11 11.07 arrives st erth 11.11 branch depts 11.11, so most passengers drive to lelant saltings thus ^4 ranger ticket.

[richard bickford]

That is my point. Drive to Saltings, but buy a Hayle to St Ives return.

Save money, and still have a legal ticket.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, STATION MASTER! 

[thetrout]

I remember when I was 14/15 and lived in Cornwall, You could buy a Child Cheap Day Return from Liskeard - Plymouth for ^2.90, Yet buy a Cheap Day Return from Liskeard - Quintrell Downs for ^2.55 

Having said that, In the summer you could buy a Child Saver First Class Return for ^6.00 from Liskeard to Plymouth... Also you could buy a First Cheap Day Return from Liskeard - Newquay for about ^6 also... The latter during the summer months on weekends, was well worth it just to get a seat the added tea & coffee making trout happy and having a pleasent journey

[RichardB]

I remember when I was 14/15 and lived in Cornwall, You could buy a Child Cheap Day Return from Liskeard - Plymouth for ^2.90, Yet buy a Cheap Day Return from Liskeard - Quintrell Downs for ^2.55 

Having said that, In the summer you could buy a Child Saver First Class Return for ^6.00 from Liskeard to Plymouth... Also you could buy a First Cheap Day Return from Liskeard - Newquay for about ^6 also... The latter during the summer months on weekends, was well worth it just to get a seat the added tea & coffee making trout happy and having a pleasent journey

Funnily enough, the Child Cheap Day (Off Peak) Return from Liskeard to Plymouth is only ^2.50 now (as a result of the June 06 fares reduction)!  Liskeard - Quintrell Downs is now the same - ^2.50.

A First Class Child Cheap Day (Off Peak) Return from Liskeard - Plymouth is now ^5.15.

[Andy]

With Hayle being quite close to both St Erth, with its junction status, and Camborne, with a much larger population, it seems inevitable that it would get squeezed in a drive to shorten journey times by reducing stops. It does, however, have reasonably healthy usage stats (especially given Vacman's portrayal of the station as a fare-dodgers haven).

[Lee]

Each time the timetable comes out services are lost ^ it is being eroded all the time

I thought I'd check this assertion against previous, current and future timetables:

MONDAY-FRIDAY

DECEMBER 2006

Westbound (14 services)

0737, 0808, 0909, 1001, 1106, 1256, 1451, 1619, 1750, 1911, 2036, 2111, 2209, 0013.

Eastbound (13 services)

0532, 0615, 0657, 0759, 1047, 1152, 1501, 1654, 1749, 1916, 2025, 2106, 2214.

MAY 2007

Westbound (14 services)

0740, 0808, 0856, 1001, 1106, 1255, 1450, 1620, 1750, 1914, 2036, 2111, 2209, 0013.

Eastbound (13 services)

0532, 0615, 0657, 0757, 1047, 1152, 1501, 1655, 1749, 1916, 2025, 2106, 2214.

DECEMBER 2007

Cant find my copy at the moment - sorry.

MAY 2008

Westbound (15 services + 1 summer only - 1812)

0740, 0808, 0856, 0958, 1107, 1222, 1259, 1453, 1544, 1750, 1812, 1915, 2036, 2113, 2215, 0013.

Eastbound (15 services)

0532, 0615, 0655, 0757, 0857, 1047, 1154, 1306, 1501, 1655, 1751, 1916, 2025, 2106, 2214.

DECEMBER 2008

Westbound (17 services)

0739, 0808, 0853, 1007, 1110, 1224, 1259, 1413, 1453, 1542, 1749, 1914, 1935, 2116, 2216, 2232, 0014.

Eastbound (15 services)

0533, 0611, 0658, 0751, 0857, 0952, 1101, 1156, 1305, 1501, 1656, 1751, 1917, 2025, 2219.

MAY 2009

Westbound (15 services + 1 summer only ^ 1353)

0739, 0805, 0853, 1007, 1107, 1224, 1353, 1422, 1454, 1537, 1750, 1915, 1935, 2209, 2231, 0014.

Eastbound (13 services)

0531, 0611, 0751, 0952, 1057, 1157, 1305, 1501, 1656, 1752, 1924, 2030, 2220.

DECEMBER 2009

Westbound (15 services)

0739, 0805, 0853, 1007, 1106, 1227, 1422, 1455, 1537, 1750, 1916, 1935, 2210, 2231, 0016.

Eastbound (13 services)

0531, 0611, 0753, 0952, 1057, 1154, 1305, 1501, 1656, 1753, 1927, 2030, 2220.

CONCLUSIONS

The trend was actually towards increasing services and plugging gaps up until May 2009, when service changes created a significantly worse Eastbound morning peak service, presumably in order to speed up journey times for Penzance passengers. The evening service has also significantly worsened from the (roughly) hourly base established in December 2006, although this trend actually began in December 2008, continuing into the May 2009 timetable.

A clue to the official reasoning behind the May 2009 service changes can be found in the following quote from the Network Rail GW^▸ (Great Western) RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy):

Initial analysis focused on local service provision, removing various stops(with a proposal for an additional local stopping service implemented) to improve end to end journey times by circa 15 minutes. Various tests were also completed on revising the main line calling pattern with the journey time savings ranging from nine minutes to 18.

However, it became evident that there were potential benefits that could be gained through a review of the strategy of local services between Plymouth and Penzance. Due to the complexities that needed to be considered with the single line sections, park and ride opportunities and main line and branch line connections it was proposed that a greater timetable study should be developed to review this. After discussing this with FGW^▸ (First Great Western), it transpired that such timetable work had been undertaken and a number of service changes were being introduced from May 2009. This option was therefore closed with the recommendation to continually review requirements and the calling patterns for journey time improvements as an ongoing timetabling activity with the joint timetable improvement group established between Network Rail and FGW.

The first after-school service back from Truro on weekdays does not arrive in Hayle until 5.50pm...

This is true, but was caused by a retiming of services from what they were in 2006/2007, rather than as a result of a reduction in the number of stops.

...and on Sundays there is nothing between 3.15pm and 8.15pm

He is also quoted as describing the Sunday service as 'appalling'

SUNDAY

DECEMBER 2006

Westbound (6 services)

1111, 1150, 1247, 1728, 1911, 2056.

Eastbound (4 services)

0904, 1403, 1520, 1912.

MAY 2007

Westbound (6 services)

1051, 1150, 1247, 1632, 1913, 2056.

Eastbound (6 services ^ 1 summer withdrawal ^ 0846)

0846, 0904, 1403, 1802, 1907, 2007.

DECEMBER 2007

Cant find my copy at the moment - sorry.

MAY 2008

Westbound (6 services)

1056, 1219, 1309, 1637, 1910, 2106.

Eastbound (4 services + 1 summer only ^ 1802)

0845, 1403, 1520, 1802, 2012.

DECEMBER 2008

Westbound (6 services)

1119, 1220, 1302, 1716, 1904, 2110.

Eastbound (4 services)

0852, 1403, 1520, 2012.

MAY 2009

Westbound (6 services)

1106, 1227, 1300, 1719, 1921, 2133.

Eastbound (5 services + 1 summer only - 1802)

0852, 1244, 1403, 1518, 1802, 2012.

DECEMBER 2009

Westbound (6 services)

1106, 1225, 1300, 1722, 1922, 2128.

Eastbound (5 services)

0850, 1244, 1403, 1520, 2017.

CONCLUSION

The level of Sunday service provision has been consistently very low, well below the Monday-Friday level. The long service gap that Paul Birch refers to does indeed exist, but has tended to be plugged in the summer months.

[Lee]

From This Is The West Country:

Hayle rail station future in doubt

Cornish MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) Julia Goldsworthy and Andrew George are calling for a meeting with First Great Western and Network Rail to safeguard the future of Hayle railway station.

The move comes as rail passengers have complained that changes to the timetable have discouraged the use of Hayle station and a fear that the station may not be included in Network Rail new initiative to improve Britain^s railway stations.

Mr George and Ms Goldsworthy, who represent Hayle and Camborne respectively, insist that more rather than less trains should stop at Hayle.

Julia said: ^The number of cars on the road in Hayle is already too high, and is only set to increase when the redevelopment of the harbour eventually takes place.

^Closing the train station will make congestion ten times worse. It would be madness to do this now.

^Clearly what is needed is a fixed timetable and regular services to encourage more people to use the station ^ not endless tinkering by rail bosses.^

Mr George added: ^My family and I use Hayle station quite often and usually see a healthy number of passengers getting on or off.

^If they closed the station it would be a cynical move. First they cut the trains that stop at Hayle and change the timetable. This reduces passenger use of the station. Then they point out that passenger numbers have fallen and want to close the station.

^With plans for another 2,000 houses in the area and against a backdrop of a transport policy to encourage more public transport usage, such a more would be idiotic^.

The Action Stations initiative will mean ^3.2bn is pumped into the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) network over the next five years.

[vacman]

Firstly, nobody has said that the station is to close, and looking at this december it appears that there are no less trains than now?
As for the sunday service, going back to the late 1990's there were only ever 2 trains per day at Hayle in each direction!

[Lee]

In order to judge whether this is a case of "closure by stealth", it is worth looking again at what the RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) says:

Initial analysis focused on local service provision, removing various stops(with a proposal for an additional local stopping service implemented) to improve end to end journey times by circa 15 minutes. Various tests were also completed on revising the main line calling pattern with the journey time savings ranging from nine minutes to 18.

However, it became evident that there were potential benefits that could be gained through a review of the strategy of local services between Plymouth and Penzance. Due to the complexities that needed to be considered with the single line sections, park and ride opportunities and main line and branch line connections it was proposed that a greater timetable study should be developed to review this. After discussing this with FGW^▸ (First Great Western), it transpired that such timetable work had been undertaken and a number of service changes were being introduced from May 2009. This option was therefore closed with the recommendation to continually review requirements and the calling patterns for journey time improvements as an ongoing timetabling activity with the joint timetable improvement group established between Network Rail and FGW.

The key question is whether the May 2009 timetable changes mark the end of the process of improving journey times by removing station calls, or whether "the recommendation to continually review requirements and the calling patterns for journey time improvements as an ongoing timetabling activity" will see further station calls removed.

The Hayle campaigners clearly fear the latter.

However, as richard bickford pointed out in an earlier post, the specification has to be considered. This is a complex beast, as it allows for part of FGW's quota of Plymouth-Penzance services to be provided by another operator. The upshot though is that Hayle is required to be served by at least 10 service calls in each direction on Monday-Friday, with at least 1 service call in each direction provided by Arriva CrossCountry.

This means that there remains scope for the further removal of station calls at Hayle if the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s wished to go down that route. Looking at the timetable, I would probably be watching the Hayle service calls in the 1006, 1406 and 1703 Paddington-Penzance services in this regard.

Specifications are not set in stone, though. There are several examples, in both FGW-land and beyond in places like East Anglia, where TOC's have gained significant specification changes by presenting a convincing business case to the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Personally though, I wouldnt be suprised if Hayle gained service calls in future timetables. After all, the Appleford/Culham folks raised the spectre of closure by stealth when their service calls were cut in May 2009, and several service calls have been added back in the December 2009 timetable.

Adding calls at Hayle in the 0648 Penzance-Paddington and 1206 Paddington-Penzance services would probably resolve a lot of their issues. The former should be relatively straightforward, but the latter may be more problematic as it could reduce turnaround time at Penzance.

[vacman]

Lee, it's all very well people banging on about how stops from stations from Hayle shouldn't be cut, but the stark reality is that when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) put in loads of stops in dec 06 then nobody used them!

You mention the 0648 pnz-pad, this train used to call at Hayle but you would never see more than 2 people get on, and that train had stopped there for around 4 years! likewise the 1703 Pad-Pnz, i've been on that train a few times and have NEVER seen a single passenger get on or off at Hayle!

I believe that more people would be attracted to rail if journeys were quicker with less stops, particularly from Cornwall, i'm out there every day on these trains, I see it first hand, I hear what people moan about and what they praise.

[Lee]

Dont get me wrong, vacman, I do think your point about usage has merit.

Let's look again at the Appleford/Culham example, where the following quotes set a similar tone to that at Hayle:

^We feel frustrated, angry, let down and worried that we might lose all our services.

^We think this is a move by the company to cut services to us altogether in the long term and that really worries us.^

^It^s an outrage. We would be cut off if we lost the station.^

^FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have been awarded the franchise to operate this service, not to change it to an express service or to provide an ever-deteriorating service so passengers are driven away, justifying the next stage in the closedown.

FGW's response was as follows:

^We have no plans to stop running trains from Appleford and Culham stations.

^We^re required to operate a minimum level of service within our contract, which we are currently exceeding.

^The number of people who wrote in to comment about the removal of these stops vastly exceeds those using the services regularly.

^This is a particularly congested part of the network and the timings of trains are very tight. Although the changes will inconvenience a small number of people, we have to balance this against the positive impact it will have on the vast majority of our customers^ journeys.^

When I read that, I honestly thought that FGW were going to ride out the storm.

They didnt though, and Appleford/Culham have been given a second chance, along with what effectively amounts to a "use it or lose it" challenge. It is now imperative that they get people onto their restored services to justify their inclusion in the timetable, as indeed the Hayle folks will have to if they gain/regain services.

You can bet that's what we will bust a gut to do when we get a proper service on the TransWilts.

On the issue of improved journey times/less stops on Cornish services, the concern would be that we could end up heading for the following scenario:

"HST^▸ (High Speed Train)/IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) and XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services will now only serve St Erth, Camborne, Redruth, Truro, St Austell, Par, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard between Penzance-Plymouth. Dont worry though, the other stations will continue to be served by the DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) services."

Whilst that might sound reasonable, it would have quite a negative impact on services at stations such as Hayle, Lostwithiel, St Germans and Saltash.

[IndustryInsider]

They didnt though, and Appleford/Culham have been given a second chance, along with what effectively amounts to a "use it or lose it" challenge. It is now imperative that they get people onto their restored services to justify their inclusion in the timetable, as indeed the Hayle folks will have to if they gain/regain services.

I think that the new timetable is a sensible compromise for Appleford and Culham. The village of Appleford getting a 2-hourly service for its residents, with Culham getting a service aimed at the Science Centre commuters (who I would estimate make up 90-95% of the stations business), but with an additional early afternoon train for anybody working a half-day.

Good to see you posting again, Lee.

[vacman]

hi vacman maybe if anybody bothered to do tickets from hayle then we might get a true picture of how many people use the station.

only just seen thic post, it is actually the responsibility of the passenger to buy a ticket and have on many accasions seen a few people get on a t Hayle and if not challenged for a ticket happily walk out of the station at Penzance without paying, if people of Hayle are really that concerned then they need to do their bit aswell.