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Author Topic: Strike ballot over rail rosters at Cardiff (18/11/2009)  (Read 15836 times)
Chris from Nailsea
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« on: November 18, 2009, 22:39:11 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Signalling workers are to be balloted on whether to strike in a row over rosters at a new control centre.

The Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)) union said members in Wales and the Marches would vote over the next few weeks. The union is protesting over the imposition of rosters at a new multi-million pound control centre which is due to open in Cardiff in January.

Network Rail said its doors were open to "constructive discussions".

The ballot result will be announced on 3 December.

RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: "Our members are furious at the attempt to bulldoze through rosters at the new control centre which we believe are all about saving money and which unilaterally rip up existing agreements. RMT maintains that the existing 12-hour roster is tried and tested, and that the eight-hour roster that Network Rail are trying to impose will have damaging consequences. We remain available for talks and would urge Network Rail to get back around the table to negotiate a settlement to this dispute."

A Network Rail spokesperson said: "We are committed to running a better, more efficient railway and our investment plans for south Wales will help us deliver a more reliable railway for passengers. Our doors are always open for constructive discussions with the RMT, to help us bring in the changes we need to deliver the service passengers expect."
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2009, 23:34:24 »

Hmm.

Just a thought, but if NR» (Network Rail - home page) was trying to switch rosters from an eight-hour shift to a twelve-hour shift, I would hazard a guess that there would be a huge amount of bluster emanating from certain parties about how NR was trying to compromise safety by forcing safety-critical staff to work unacceptably long shifts.

And pleeeease don't tell me there's a possibility of a Christmas strike on the railways! I'm already on tenterhooks waiting to find out if I'll actually be able to fly home with BA» (British Airways - about) as it is!
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super tm
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« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2009, 23:54:11 »

No its the other way round.  From 12 hour to 8.  That is why you dont get any bluster from the RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) about safety / fatigue etc.  Personally I think 12 hour shifts are too long and 8 seems about right but it seems the siggies like to have more days off and work really long shifts.
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 09:08:57 »

You see this is unions are bad.

It doesnt matter what a company do, the unions will complain.

Unless its a massive amount more money, they object to any change!
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« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 12:57:18 »

There is a problem with long shifts for signallers convenience, and it appears the RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) are onto the problem. The report into the 66 derailment at East Somerset Junction near Westbury dwells on the signaller's shift patterns, and cross refers to some other cases.

http://www.raib.gov.uk/sites/raib/cms_resources.cfm?file=/091110_R282009_East%20Somerset%20Junction.pdf

So as suggested above, it would be next to impossible for the safety card to be played in this dispute.

Paul

 
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eightf48544
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« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 16:38:23 »

You see this is unions are bad.

It doesnt matter what a company do, the unions will complain.

Unless its a massive amount more money, they object to any change!

Good for the unions they are only working the capitalist system. They are just exploitng a skill which is in short supply.

Just like the bankers  the only trouble is that as they are in charge they can get away with it, whereas the signalmen (signallers belong in war films  on the back of  a warship bridge and are chirpy cokneys first to be hit when a shell lands) are  seen as troublemakers.
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« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 17:09:33 »

perhaps NR» (Network Rail - home page) are doing the right thing (12 hour shifts must be dangerous surely?), but it aint what you do it is the way that you do it, and so unilaterally changing T&C without proper negotiations would be wrong. 
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Lee
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« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2009, 17:09:54 »

From the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Rail workers plan six-day strike

Hundreds of railway signalling workers are to take six days of strike action in the run-up to Christmas.

Members of the Rail Maritime and Transport union based in south Wales and the Marches will walk out from Monday, December 14 until December 19.

It is in protest at the "imposition" of rosters at a control centre due to open in January, and the union said the strikes would cause massive disruption.

But Network Rail said there would be minimal disruption to services.

The train operator said it had contingency plans in place, and the main line in south Wales will be running as normal.

The workers voted 2-1 for the strikes in the ballot.

Staff affected are based in areas including Cardiff, Newport, Port Talbot, Vale of Glamorgan and the Rhymney Valley.

Rail Maritime and Transport (RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers)) general secretary Bob Crow said: "Our members are furious at the attempt to bulldoze through rosters at the new south Wales control centre which we believe are all about saving money and which unilaterally rip up existing agreements.

"Their support for strike action in this ballot shows just how determined they are to force a management rethink.

"RMT maintains that the existing 12-hour roster is tried and tested and that the eight-hour roster that Network Rail are trying to impose at the new south Wales control centre when it opens in January will have damaging consequences.

"We remain available for talks and would urge Network Rail to get back around the table to negotiate a settlement to this dispute."

A Network Rail spokesperson had previously said: "We are committed to running a better, more efficient railway and our investment plans for south Wales will help us deliver a more reliable railway for passengers.

"Our doors are always open for constructive discussions with the RMT, to help us bring in the changes we need to deliver the service passengers expect."
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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2009, 12:03:40 »

You see this is unions are bad.

It doesnt matter what a company do, the unions will complain.

Unless its a massive amount more money, they object to any change!

 I wonder what experience you have had to make your ill informed generalisation.

 None probably, as usual you're talking out of your arse.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 12:29:38 »

You see this is unions are bad.

It doesnt matter what a company do, the unions will complain.

Unless its a massive amount more money, they object to any change!

 I wonder what experience you have had to make your ill informed generalisation.

 None probably, as usual you're talking out of your arse.

Now, now, Henry - steady on! FallenAngel has a point about unions objecting to change and complaining no matter what a company does, though as she isn't in the industry (or a similar one), she doesn't understand what benefits unionism has for the industry. I've tried to explain in a balanced way the benefits and drawbacks, but she's convinced herself, so it usually falls on deaf ears.

As for this particular dispute, the signallers concerned are clearly reluctant to give up the large number of days off they currently get for working 12-hour shifts. It's difficult to see the union winning this one, as there is no 'safety' card they can play. Although they get plenty of rest periods and if working in front of a VDU then laws on the time you can spend looking at it apply, it's pretty obvious that 8-hour shifts would be intrinsically safer. The fact they only voted 2-1 for strike action hints that with a compromise or two here and there, the dispute will be resolved quite easily and 8-hour shifts will be in place as desired.
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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 16:15:23 »

Hmm ... somehow subjects like this seem to bring out views at both ends of the spectrum, and with a lot of inflammable gas being blown in from both sides it can get rather hot if it catches light.

Please don't strike another match, anyone!
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« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 16:54:51 »

If I can give an insight from the other side of the fence, as one of those involved in the dispute, because there is very little information in the public domain for the public to judge if we are being unreasonable or not.

First off, this is not a union propaganda message so please don't take it that way. I am a 30 year railman who has never, in all of my service even considered taking industrial action until now.

The dispute involves between 70 and 80 signallers in the South Wales area, all of whom have one thing in common. They will be the first of many that will, within the next few years, be housed in the new "Welsh Assembly" led state of the art control centre in Cardiff. This will include all of those from North/Mid and West Wales as well, since it is the Welsh Assembly's stated aim to create Welsh Rail, where all parts of the rail network in Wales are controlled from Cardiff. The first part has already been achieved, when management of the North Wales coast route was transferred to Cardiff six months ago to join the existing South Wales control. Now they start on bringing all the signallers under the same roof, starting January 4th.

The Newport signallers are the first to be affected, with 6 being forced to transfer in January and the remaining 12 next October. I say forced, because although NR» (Network Rail - home page) will say that four volunteered to transfer, it was made quite clear that if no "volunteers" came forward, six would be chosen, and if they refused to go, they would be making themselves redundant. As it is, two have been forced to transfer against their wishes to the new location.

The staff in all of the larger South Wales signal boxes, together with the Vale of Glamorgan, have worked 12 hour shifts without difficulty for a number of years. In the case of Newport, they were introduced at the company's request 12 years ago. The majority of the staff working in Newport have joined the team since that time, on the understanding of the shift pattern. Many, like myself, have actively chosen the shift pattern after many years of working 8 hour shifts in various jobs. The average age of the staff in Newport is about 40. The majority of us have done jobs in the outside world, and know what it is like. Many have children, and the shift pattern lends itself to allowing a better family life, easier child care arrangements, less travelling, all things that this Government has been actively promoting over the past years.

All that the staff who are immediately affected by this impending move have ever asked, is that the upheaval of moving working locations is kept to a minimum. NR promised in fact, to ensure that this was the case when the move was first discussed. It is bad enough for the staff in Newport that they have to travel to probably the most difficult part of Cardiff to access from that direction. On match days and special events, access will be doubly difficult, and travelling time will often be extended. What NR is now demanding is that we also work on an additional 80 days a year, with all the costs and problems that it brings. This will have a devastating affect for many on ourselves and our families. More importantly, if NR are allowed to do it this time, they will have a precedent for all future openings and for removing the 12 hour facility from all other areas. This is why many of my colleagues nationally are watching events with equal interest and concern. The decision was made not to involve them in the ballot at this stage because it does not directly involve them. We chose to limit the effect to the immediate area so as to interupt the lives of as few as possible while proving our point. We apologise in advance to those who are affected.

It is not only the extra costs for travel amd loss of free time that this is about, it's about extra childcare costs, other family members having to change their working arrangements to fit in. At present, several wives of signallers work part time so that they can work when their husbands are off work. What effect does that have when the main bread winner is in work for two or three days a week extra, often at antisocial hours. From the outset of negotiations, which started seven months ago, NR have catagorically refused to budge on the issue of 8 hour shifts. They claim it is to save costs. At first it was ^1600 a man less per year, (although this disregards the additional costs paid under redundancy arrangements for travel because they are being paid by somebody else). Safety issues were never even mentioned. They even accepted that in terms of fatigue, the choice of 8 hours versus 12 hours was fatigue neutral. The latest figure quoted is ^136000 total additional cost, although where that comes from who knows. We've also been told that if we have 12 hour shifts, six others will have to lose their jobs, which is tantamount to blackmail.

We have tried to come to a compromise. We have even offered to allow spare capacity in Newport (which is built into the 12 hour roster that NR agreed with the remaining staff only two weeks ago) to travel to Cardiff to cover the one shift every 12 weeks that, under their table of organisation, makes any attempt to create a roster which is complaint with agreed principals impossible. At every turn, we have been rebuffed, deceived, and told outright lies. The strike action is the result of 7 months of outright frustration on the part of the staff . It could end tomorrow with one simple acknowledgement that we are entitled to retain what we already have. We're not asking for extra money, or less hours, or better conditions. Just to be able to keep what we already have.

The staff who do the job have all accepted, when they joined the grades, that there are certain limitations on their social lives, which the job requires. This job does not just affect our lives for the 8 or 12 hours that we are in work like so many. We have to modify our social lives well before we actually start work. For example, few realise that to be safe, we are advised not to drink alcohol within 12 hours of starting work. Reporting for duty with any amount greater than the natually occuring level of alcohol in the bloodstream is a dismissable offence and we are subject to random screening. You can quite happily drive to work, get stopped and pass a breathaliser test with flying colours, and still be found under the influence at work and sacked, three hours after you've started work. This is not so bad if you have three days off between shifts, but imagine if this is your one day off in thirteen days. How many others would accept the imposition of that sort of limitation?

That is why more and more signallers have chosen the 12 hour shift pattern, and the majority of those who cannot swap view us with a degree of envy. Almost all signallers who are on 8 hour shifts will tell you that in order to obtain any sort of quality time off (we are talking four consecutive days including a Sunday), they have to work strings of seven or eight consecutive shifts, often followed by one day off and another string of five or six days. I would ask what is safer, to work a maximum of four 12 hour night shifts, followed by three days off (as we currently do), or a run of seven late shifts, with a days off and seven nights with no guarantee that you won't be asked to work on your day off as well. The maximum number of shifts that a signaller can work in 13 x 8  hour shifts in a row before a day off and many have been asked to do that in the past, because of a policy of always maintaining vacancies for budgetary purposes.

The matter of the RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) report into the Westbury derailment was also raised. This has been jumped on by NR as a nice little deflection towards the safety aspect, even though the report actually said that fatigue COULD have played a part. (No absollute certainty there). If you read the report in full, it raises a few key issues. The member of staff concerned had a roster which saw him working six consecutive shifts. This was his sixth. In the past five, he had finished at midnight, 6am, midnight, 6am and midnight. It is no wonder that his body clock was all to hell with a pattern like that. The background of it was that it was decided that one man was all that was needed to operated the 80, or so miles of route that Westbury covered, after midnight, and so one of the night shifts was withdrawn in order to cut a post and save money. All well and good, and given the traffic which tends to be reasonably light early morning, they are correct. That is until something goes wrong and the workload rockets, mainly due to the number of phonecalls that you will recieve, often totally unnecessary. If you also look at the comparison between his base roster and his actual hours, you will find that in the previous month he had worked six addtional shifts, all because Westbury carried two vacancies. As already said, it is an NR policy to keep vacancies, because it is cheaper to pay overtime than incur pension and national insurance payments of another on the headcount. This has been going on for years.

Sorry for the long, and first post. If it allows a few of our customers to have a more informed discussion on the subject, then I will feel it's been worth it at least.

And let us hope, that we're all in work next Monday because none of us want to strike but it is our last hope and resort to keep what we have fought long and hard for.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 17:04:55 by We apologise for... » Logged
JayMac
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« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 17:20:20 »

An interesting, an robust defence, of the signalman's position on this issue, 'We apologise for....'.

It is always welcome to hear from those directly affected by changes to working practices. Your post has certainly opened my eyes to the minutiae of the problems faced by the changes NR» (Network Rail - home page) are trying to bring in. However, I remain of the opinion that 8 hour shifts are far better in such a safety critical job.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. The more 'insiders' we hear from the better. Helps us passengers better understand what is involved in providing us with a train service.
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« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 18:37:45 »

Welcome to the forum "We apologise for..." and a very interesting insight to the goings on at Cardiff.

bignosemac:  Taken as a simple issue, (for example working 8hrs X 4 days versus 12hrs X 4 days), you would be able to argue that 8hr shifts would cause a lower level of fatigue.  However, as has now been explained, you have to take into account changed rest patterns and has been accepted the fatigue level is neutral.

Furthermore, the level of fatigue could be increased under 8 hr shifts, as no doubt NR» (Network Rail - home page) would allow workers to work 4 hours overtime and complete a 12 hour shift if circumstances required.  I cannot therefore accept NR arguing these changes under grounds of reducing fatigue or increasing safety.

I refer you back to the following:


Safety issues were never even mentioned. They even accepted that in terms of fatigue, the choice of 8 hours versus 12 hours was fatigue neutral.

Almost all signallers who are on 8 hour shifts will tell you that in order to obtain any sort of quality time off (we are talking four consecutive days including a Sunday), they have to work strings of seven or eight consecutive shifts, often followed by one day off and another string of five or six days. I would ask what is safer, to work a maximum of four 12 hour night shifts, followed by three days off (as we currently do), or a run of seven late shifts, with a days off and seven nights with no guarantee that you won't be asked to work on your day off as well. The maximum number of shifts that a signaller can work in 13 x 8  hour shifts in a row before a day off and many have been asked to do that in the past, because of a policy of always maintaining vacancies for budgetary purposes.
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« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 18:41:24 »

You see this is unions are bad.

It doesnt matter what a company do, the unions will complain.

Unless its a massive amount more money, they object to any change!

I'd be interested to see if FA holds the same opinion now of unions under these circumstances?
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