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Author Topic: Oyster Cards for Bristol - an ongoing issue, with no real progress so far?  (Read 10830 times)
bemmy
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« on: December 15, 2009, 09:41:08 pm »

From the Bristol Evening Post:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/homepage/Travel-Bristol-paper-ticket-years/article-1610272-detail/article.html

Quote
Passengers could travel in Bristol without a paper ticket within five years
Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 12:00

Bristol is among nine major cities where passengers will be able to use public transport without a paper ticket within five years, it was revealed today.

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis announced that England's nine largest urban areas will receive ^20 million to introduce smart and integrated ticketing.

The Government also wants every area of England to benefit from the Smart and Integrated Ticketing Strategy by 2020.

Smart tickets ^ a system where a ticket is stored on a microchip, on a smartcard (like Oyster) or even on a phone or bank card ^ can give improved journey times and faster, hassle-free purchasing and use of tickets, with associated benefits for local government and operators.

"Integrated smart" ticketing could be worth over ^1 billion per year, the Government believes.

To encourage bus operators to introduce smart ticketing systems, the Government has also announced an eight per cent increase in the Bus Service Operator Grant (BSOG).

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis said: "The benefits of smart ticketing to passengers are clear ^ quicker, easier and potentially better value journeys on trains, buses and trams, whichever company runs the service. We could even see the death of the paper ticket as direct payment and mobile phone technology picks up pace.

"If passengers had smart tickets they'd almost certainly use public transport more. That's why I'm incentivising bus operators to make our vision of universal coverage of smart ticketing in England a reality and why we'll continue to require ITSO smart ticketing in rail franchises.

"Getting this technology on-board will help reduce congestion and pollution, improve the local environment, and help us, operators and local authorities provide the 21st century public transport network that we know people want."

The ^20m smart ticketing fund will be available in the nine largest urban areas in England outside London ^ Greater Manchester, West Midlands, Tyne and Wear, Merseyside, South Yorkshire, and West Yorkshire, Nottingham, Leicester and Bristol.

The funding will go towards implementing ITSO smart ticketing schemes in each region.

Bus operators will also receive a further two per cent increase in their BSOG rate if they fit GPS technology to their buses which allows the operator to track the position of their bus. Together these incentives could be worth around an additional ^1,000 in grant per bus each year.

Encouraging the take up and use of GPS systems will help realise the potential for passengers to receive real-time information about bus services and bus performance.

A recent survey commissioned by the Department indicated that integrated smart tickets have the potential to attract as many as 25 per cent of current non-public transport users onto the system and that a pre-pay smartcard with a daily "cap" could increase some individuals' trip rates by over 14%.
I hope this is true, it's what we're crying out for. The buses would get quicker overnight, demand would go up, and there would be many more cases of individuals choosing to use public transport instead of driving. It worked in London.

Obviously it's too much to ask for them to work on local trains too, but it could be the single biggest improvement to Bristol area transport in the 30 years I've been here. Although as one commentor pointed out, First withdrew the Buscard Plus tickets, where you bought ^10 of travel at 10% discount and used a card reader as you entered the bus.... but this is a more advanced and flexible system than that.

With real time information for all bus stops now available online, maybe in a few years First's boast that "Travelling around Bristol, Bath and the West on First bus services has never been easier" might actually be true.
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paul7755
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 11:50:35 pm »

Obviously it's too much to ask for them to work on local trains too,

It will be introduced when the FGW franchise chnages hands. All recent new franchises (since SWT) have been required to bring in ITSO ticketing as part of the ITT.

Paul
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bemmy
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2009, 12:25:31 pm »

Obviously it's too much to ask for them to work on local trains too,

It will be introduced when the FGW franchise chnages hands. All recent new franchises (since SWT) have been required to bring in ITSO ticketing as part of the ITT.

Paul
Yeah but the franchise won't change hands, will it.

Besides, is there a requirement that ITSO be integrated with other forms of transport? That would require a major re-organisation of ticketing, and brings up the thorny issue of how First is "competing" with itself, and has a commercial imperative to encourage profitable bus services at the expense of loss-making local trains, because the bus fares are so much higher than the train fares. Which to my mind is why we don't have through trains from Bedminster to Avonmouth, or St Ives to Penzance.
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ZoŽ
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2009, 02:10:02 pm »

Yeah but the franchise won't change hands, will it.
It depends who puts in the highest bid in 2013/2016, that said I would expect First will put in a very high bid to ensure they do indeed retain the franchise.
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2009, 03:43:33 pm »

If it's a requirement in the invitation to tender (ITT) then whoever operates the franchise (whether it be the incumbent or a new outfit) will be required to provide the "smart card" ticketing at some point after the franchise change/renewal.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2009, 12:29:17 am »

The titel sums up a major problem especialy in london. Oyster is a proprietry product used by TFL DaFT is only allowing ITSO complaint sytems.

Hence an aweful lot of software rewriting to get ITSO and Oyster cards readable by both systems. IT is still causing problems in London particularly with the PAYG Oyster not being compatible with some ITSO systems.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2015, 10:24:04 pm »

An update, from the Bristol Post:

Quote
Bristol to get its own Oyster-style card by the end of next year


MetroBus: smart cards from day one to pay for fares

An Oyster-style "smart" card will be introduced from day one on the long-awaited MetroBuses which should be up and running by the end of next year.

It will mean that passengers will be able to pre-pay for their card on the internet at home or on their iphone and then use it instead of cash when boarding one of the new hi-tech single deckers which will run on three routes that are now being built.

Passengers will be able to buy the cards in advance at shops or other sites such as a park and ride terminal. They will be top up their cards online, some shops or any of the 90 stops on the MetroBus network.

Eventually, the smart cards will also be linked to trains so that passengers will be able to travel throughout the Bristol region without any cash at all.

But transport executives admit that seamless travel between buses and trains is a long-term aspiration which will take some years before it becomes a reality.

The smart cards are already being tried out the park and ride services in Bristol and Bath to sort out software issues and any other technical problems.

Bristol was the first city that Bus operator First introduced its "Touch" card which has been in use now for more than a year.

Smart cards are seen as the way forward in the future because they reduce the amount of time that a bus has to remain stationary at bus stops while passengers pay for a ticket.

Instead of using cash to buy a ticket, a smart card means that a passenger has to swipe it as they get on a bus.

Transport executives also admit that the success of using smart cards needs a sea change in passenger habits. Research shows, for example, that people over 50 with a smart phone hardly ever download any apps which they could use to "pre-load" their card.

But though it has taken several years, London buses are now cash-less, thanks to universal acceptance of smart cards.

The new MetroBus stops will provide real-time information on the arrival of the next bus as well as a vending machine for smart tickets and a "loader pad" for activating smart cards.

At 20 of the 90 stops, there will be machines for passengers who want to pay for their tickets in cash.

The MetroBus will be aimed at middle-distance commuters who want a fast and reliable service as an alternative to using their car for travelling about.

There will be fewer stops than ordinary buses and the twin doors will mean passengers will be able to get on and off more quickly which will also reduce "dwell time".

One of the key elements of the new MetroBus will be the control of fares by the councils which are promoting the project.

Under Government regulations, the councils will be able decide how much passengers pay instead of leaving it up to the bus operators.

Buses were de-regulated under Margaret Thatcher with the aim of introducing competition among bus companies to keep fares down.

But what happened was that the biggest companies could force out independent operators by undercutting fares and then monopolising services so they could dictate their own prices.

The MetroBus could see different operators on each of the three routes because the network would be so financially viable.

But a Quality Partnership agreement, as set out by the councils, will not only govern fares but dictate frequency of services and even type of vehicles.

The MetroBuses will be single deckers with hybrid engines (diesel and electric) and twin doors to reduce "dwell time" at bus stops.

The transport board is expected to receive a report on a Quality Partnership agreement at its October meeting.

The MetroBus will see three routes introduced in the Bristol region:

+ Ashton Vale to Bristol Temple Meads: services up and running by winter, 2016.

+ South Bristol Link (Ashton Vale to Hengrove): up and running by winter, 2016;

+ North Bristol fringe to Hengrove: up and running by summer, 2017.
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William Huskisson MP was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
XPT
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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 04:32:36 pm »

From the Bristol Evening Post:
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/homepage/Travel-Bristol-paper-ticket-years/article-1610272-detail/article.html

Quote
Passengers could travel in Bristol without a paper ticket within five years
Tuesday, December 15, 2009, 12:00

Bristol is among nine major cities where passengers will be able to use public transport without a paper ticket within five years, it was revealed today.

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis announced that England's nine largest urban areas will receive ^20 million to introduce smart and integrated ticketing.

The Government also wants every area of England to benefit from the Smart and Integrated Ticketing Strategy by 2020.

Smart tickets ^ a system where a ticket is stored on a microchip, on a smartcard (like Oyster) or even on a phone or bank card ^ can give improved journey times and faster, hassle-free purchasing and use of tickets, with associated benefits for local government and operators.

"Integrated smart" ticketing could be worth over ^1 billion per year, the Government believes.

To encourage bus operators to introduce smart ticketing systems, the Government has also announced an eight per cent increase in the Bus Service Operator Grant (BSOG).

Transport Secretary Andrew Adonis said: "The benefits of smart ticketing to passengers are clear ^ quicker, easier and potentially better value journeys on trains, buses and trams, whichever company runs the service. We could even see the death of the paper ticket as direct payment and mobile phone technology picks up pace.

"If passengers had smart tickets they'd almost certainly use public transport more. That's why I'm incentivising bus operators to make our vision of universal coverage of smart ticketing in England a reality and why we'll continue to require ITSO smart ticketing in rail franchises.

"Getting this technology on-board will help reduce congestion and pollution, improve the local environment, and help us, operators and local authorities provide the 21st century public transport network that we know people want."

The ^20m smart ticketing fund will be available in the nine largest urban areas in England outside London ^ Greater Manchester, West Midlands, Tyne and Wear, Merseyside, South Yorkshire, and West Yorkshire, Nottingham, Leicester and Bristol.

The funding will go towards implementing ITSO smart ticketing schemes in each region.

Bus operators will also receive a further two per cent increase in their BSOG rate if they fit GPS technology to their buses which allows the operator to track the position of their bus. Together these incentives could be worth around an additional ^1,000 in grant per bus each year.

Encouraging the take up and use of GPS systems will help realise the potential for passengers to receive real-time information about bus services and bus performance.

A recent survey commissioned by the Department indicated that integrated smart tickets have the potential to attract as many as 25 per cent of current non-public transport users onto the system and that a pre-pay smartcard with a daily "cap" could increase some individuals' trip rates by over 14%.
I hope this is true, it's what we're crying out for. The buses would get quicker overnight, demand would go up, and there would be many more cases of individuals choosing to use public transport instead of driving. It worked in London.

Obviously it's too much to ask for them to work on local trains too, but it could be the single biggest improvement to Bristol area transport in the 30 years I've been here. Although as one commentor pointed out, First withdrew the Buscard Plus tickets, where you bought ^10 of travel at 10% discount and used a card reader as you entered the bus.... but this is a more advanced and flexible system than that.

With real time information for all bus stops now available online, maybe in a few years First's boast that "Travelling around Bristol, Bath and the West on First bus services has never been easier" might actually be true.

It's 5 and a half years since that story that Bristol would get Oyster style cards within 5 years!  Not surprisingly it didn't happen!  Now the latest is that Bristol will get an Oyster card by the end of next year!  I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening!  And then come some time near the end of next year there will be another article "Bristol to get Oyster cards within a year"!!!

 There is also this article from June 2012 that Bristol will get an Oyster card within a year! http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Oyster-style-card-Bristol-buses-year/story-16375538-detail/story.html

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Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 06:00:30 pm »

If Oyster is such a good idea, why are TfL replacing them with contactless payment (and ApplePay)?
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paul7755
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« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 06:38:24 pm »

They've said that Oyster cards will remain for those without bank accounts, but the system will be altered allow for back office processing rather than at the barrier line, and weekly/monthly capping will be added to 'Oyster', as well as daily capping as now.

Bristol (and anywhere else) won't ever get 'Oyster like' cards anyway, it's about time the media, and politicians, thought of a different way of explaining ITSO and other contactless card payment systems.

AIUI Tfl's systems see 'Applepay' as just a normal contactless card transaction, they haven't actually altered anything to accept it.

Paul
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Brucey
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2015, 07:19:49 pm »

I've said it before and I'll say it again: most passengers will not switch to a new system unless there is some benefit to them.

A system where you have to top-up/load a ticket onto your card, touch in, touch out and making sure you don't get overcharged by touching the wrong card is more complex than buying a ticket to keep in your wallet.  Especially when the fare is the same.

The reason it worked in London was due to a massive fare differential between Oyster and paper tickets.  I wonder if that will happen in Bristol?
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2015, 11:00:00 pm »

Well, in the meantime, we can all start using Bristol Pounds, apparently.  From the First Great Western press release:

Quote
^All aboard?^ Bristol currency now accepted at Bristol Temple Meads station

The Bristol Pound, the UK^s first city-wide local currency is to be accepted by First Great Western for the first time at our Bristol Temple Meads station.

Designed to build stronger community connections and support a greener local economy, the currency is already accepted by First bus, Good Energy and Bristol City Council for Council Tax. Now customers will be able to us Bristol Pounds at the station^s ticket offices from Tuesday 14 July to be used to buy rail tickets.

Station Manager Mike Holmes explains: ^Dedicated to supporting the communities we serve, when I heard about the Bristol Pound I wanted to get on board ^ and to help focus peoples^ minds on all things local. The Great Western mainline was built not only to connect London to Bristol, but to transport the goods arriving from America at Bristol harbour to the capital and beyond. As we continue to build a greater west, we are know that Bristol^s influence as a key economic player and as city of culture and creativity will continue to grow.^

People in the city can open accounts held with Bristol Credit Union, and then they can withdraw Bristol Pounds at selected cash points across the city, use their mobile phone, or online to pay for goods or services at hundreds of Bristol locations. The ticket office at Bristol Temple Meads will be able to accept the paper version of the Bristol Pound. 

Michael Lloyd-Jones, Core Scheme Manager of the Bristol Pound said: ^Almost three years since the Bristol Pound was launched, we^re delighted that First Great Western are now accepting Bristol Pounds at Temple Meads station. It^s another big milestone for the ^B scheme in our year as European Green Capital. Together I hope we can continue to grow the Bristol Pound scheme and make it a normal activity for everyone living and visiting Bristol.^

James Berry, CEO of Bristol Credit Union, also welcomed the new initiative: ^Bristol Credit Union provides community banking right across Bristol and the West of England region and we^re delighted to be able to support our local independent businesses through making sure even more of Bristol^s money stays local. Welcome aboard First Great Western!^

Bristol Credit Union provides savings and loans to its members, as well as the Bristol Pound accounts, and will soon be offering a range of business lending too.

You can spend Bristol Pounds at every participating business using either paper Bristol Pounds (in ^B1, ^B5, ^B10 and ^B20 denominations), from a Bristol Pound account using any mobile phone by using a txt2pay system, or over the internet.

To find out where you can spend your Bristol pounds and through and ^B cash points where you can change your sterling visit the Bristol Pound website: bristolpound.org
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William Huskisson MP was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2015, 11:41:11 pm »

I rarely travel by bus now, mostly because I've no need but partly because of the difficulty of knowing which bus to get to reach my destination and that I'm not certain how much it will cost. Going back several years though and I used the bus almost every day ^ but then I was living in a large city in continental Europe (population about 2-2.5 million) and had a season ticket. This meant I didn't need to think about the cost ^ effectively there wasn't any ^ nor the ticket. This wasn't any sort of smart card, it was just a printed ticket but valid for all services in the city for a certain length of time; you could get them for periods from one day up to six months. Something like that would be good.
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Day return to Infinity, please.
Worcester_Passenger
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2015, 06:45:21 am »

I rarely travel by bus now, mostly because I've no need but partly because of the difficulty of knowing which bus to get to reach my destination and that I'm not certain how much it will cost. Going back several years though and I used the bus almost every day ^ but then I was living in a large city in continental Europe (population about 2-2.5 million) and had a season ticket. This meant I didn't need to think about the cost ^ effectively there wasn't any ^ nor the ticket. This wasn't any sort of smart card, it was just a printed ticket but valid for all services in the city for a certain length of time; you could get them for periods from one day up to six months. Something like that would be good.

Surely Bristol has got that sort of ticket already?
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Rapidash
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2015, 10:52:05 am »

I'm surprised that Devon had got smart ticketing before Bristol (by several years) Insufficient Stagecoach competition perhaps?
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