Preventing suicide on the railways

[whole diary]

[Network SouthEast]

But I also noticed that Network Rail gets fined for the delays caused by each incident which seems beyond the pail so there is another side to this coin. I agree that in some cases a suicide might be prevented by better fencing and the like but you can't keep people out of stations; and you can see from other threads on this site what can happen on crossings where people are meant to be on the railway, albeit for a short time.

Not quite 100% - TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) pay the delay penalties if a fatality happens at a station. That's why we are now seeing little used main platforms fenced off during the day and security staff on the up main platform at Ealing Broadway.

The Samaritans point out that whilst there is no such thing as 100% suicide prevention, you can make little changes that have a significant reduction. Their own research notes the impact limiting the sale of paracetamol had, along with the change of ovens from coal gas to natural gas as a couple of examples.

[stuving]

Not quite 100% - TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) pay the delay penalties if a fatality happens at a station. That's why we are now seeing little used main platforms fenced off during the day and security staff on the up main platform at Ealing Broadway.

Good point - I was thinking of level crossings, really. It's the same basic principle: bringing together budgets for the costs after the event and and for spending that reduces the number of such events. This reduces what they call "perverse incentives".

That's not to downplay the other, more important costs that's aren't measured in money (and which justify things like level crossing closures above anything strictly financial).

[John R]

I'm starting this as a general thread, rather than one connected to a particular incident.

We've seen over the last few days a tragic number of fatalities on the railways. Around 250 people die each year in railway related suicides, out of around 6,000 suspected suicides nationally.  Each one, as well as resulting in the tragic death of a person and grief for the family, results in trauma for the railway staff involved, much delay and disruption, and thus cost to the industry.

It could be argued that if we could somehow find a "wonder prevention" then those intent on ending their life would simply find another way. I'm sure there's an element of truth in this, and maybe the reduction in paracetamol related suicides means that some of these have gone on to other, more physically violent deaths, such as the railways. But it didn't mean that it wasn't the right thing to do to restrict sales of paracetamol to smaller packets.

But if we could find a wonder prevention then it would at least spare the railways and its staff from the trauma involved, and can only result in an overall reduction in deaths.

So, what to do?  I don't have any stats, but stations do seem a particularly vulnerable spot. There's been some attempt to fence off little used platforms, but what else could be done? Platform edge doors appear impractical unless the only services to use them are all identical, and we've seen the cost of installing them at just 7 Crossrail stations.  However, could some type of platform screen be installed around 1 - 2m from the edge, which only open when a train is pulling in. The placing would not need to be so precise. Would probably need a station to be manned though, could increase dwell times and result in crowding on platforms.

Outside the station, it seems almost impossible to fence off the entire network, but could a system of lasers detect when someone is adjacent to the trackside and result in a warning to the signalling centre. Would have to be clever enough to distinguish between a person and a bird or fox breaking the beam, but I'm sure that's possible.  Maybe in this day and age solar powered cameras could be installed so that in the event of an alarm from the laser system, the signaller could have a look to ensure it isn't a false alarm. Again, wouldn't stop someone who suddenly rushed onto the track just before a train, but could catch many who linger waiting for the next train to arrive.

And finally, what about the trains themselves?  Should trains have a device similar to a snowplough at rail level and some massive airbags which are automatically discharged if a human shape is detected in front of the train. It seems far fetched, but I guess 50 years ago we'd never even heard of airbags.

This would all be massively expensive, and maybe for trains only possible on new stock. But as an industry, hundreds of millions have been spent in improving safety for the onboard passenger, which has reduced the average number of deaths per year from maybe 3 or 4 to close to 0, yet 250 people a year are still dying on the railways each year, and I think the industry needs to regard this as one of its biggest problems.

Note that I've made the assumption for simplicity that these are suicides. In some cases they may not be, or it will never be known, but the fact remains that someone dies on the railway.  Neither am I passing judgement on those who are involved - for them, and their families it is a tragedy, and one that we should try to prevent.



 

[grahame]

A valid discussion, I think, John ... although it may get moved to our "Frequent Posters" area from the public visible forum area should it take certain directions.

I have to agree with John that to a degree we're hypocritical - looking at a very very low passenger casualty rate and congratulating ourselves, yet giving far less attention to a death that happens on most days on the railways.  I saw comment that the USA casualty rate in this mode is much lower, and I wonder how it's measured.   I also wonder if there is some correlation between the lack of railroad fencing in much of the USA, and / or between the easy availability of firearms to people who have lost the will to live.

[chuffed]

A very valid discussion and very sensitively raised by John R. It is something of a cliche to say if 'measures x y z prevent one poor soul from ending their life this way, it will have been worth it '. But, at what price ? How much will be  'enough'  and cue the inevitable outcry when these measures are found wanting. Is it solved by throwing yet more money at it ? A huge conundrum.
Graham you are quite right to draw attention to the dichotomy between fatalities on board today's trains and those occurring on the tracks. Are we patting ourselves on our backs about the former, and beating ourselves up about the latter ?

[Red Squirrel]

The Samaritans and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have been working on this for a couple of years; details of their partnership are here: http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway

Perhaps of particular relevance to this forum are these, the Samaritans' media guidelines: http://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

[ChrisB]

Money no object - platform doors like the new tube platforms. May need extra doors/sensors if different stock=different lengths=different door placements, but as I said, this is money no object.

Just about the only guaranteed way to prevent suicides from stations.

But most would simply find an access elsewhere, so I'm not sure there is a physical solution.

[broadgage]

I fear that suicide by train is increasing in popularity as other methods become less available, not only are dangerous medicines sold in smaller pack sizes, but the replacement of coal gas by natural gas has eliminated gas poisoning.

I can remember reading of suicide by illegally held hand guns, very often war trophies that had been improperly retained after world war 2. As the years go by more of these weapons are discovered, usually on the unrelated death of the owner, and are handed in to the police.

Modern electrical installations are increasingly protected by RCDs making suicide by electrocution unreliable.

And of course whilst trains are neither as quick nor as frequent as many customers would like, there has been a general  increase in both speed and frequency at many locations.

The above points help explain the scale of the problem, but of course do nothing to prevent or reduce it.

The O/P makes a number of suggestions that might be worth further investigation or trial.

In addition I feel that all trains should be equipped with forward facing cameras, and that the recordings should be made promptly available to the police. This wont stop suicides, but should allow quicker re-opening of the line.
Police investigations can be protracted in order to make certain that an APPARENT suicide was not in fact a murder.
Prompt expert viewing of the recording would help investigations.

[chrisr_75]

After the fatality in S.Wales this week, I was thinking about why a particular section of railway in S.Wales seems to suffer so much and have some thoeries as to why it seems to be a fatality hotspot, but will save these for a private forum as I would not like to give anyone who was half considering something any ideas...

Ultimately a lot of the suicides can probably be dealt with long before they become suicides if the general attitude towards mental health issues in this country changes and there is less taboo surrounding the problems that do affect us all to some degree at some point in our lives. Some people cope better than others, and those who suffer most should have easy access to proper help. Ideally, it should feel no worse going to your healthcare provider with a mental health problem than it does if you have a chest infection or something.

The trespasser deaths (and many level crossing accidents) are caused primarly by ignorance and I'm not sure you can do an awful lot about that!

[Electric train]

Suicides on the railways grab the headlines because when they happen it effects a lot of people when trains are delayed but there are a lot of attempt suicides and actual suicides that don't get a wider press coverage  I believe it is more a question wider that the society needs to address.

The installation of "Fast Line Fencing" and to cross hatch areas of platforms is a result of the work NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and Samaritans which got funding from DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and is reducing the number of suicides.

[grahame]

From time to time, I have to compile and build software that someone else has written from source, and sometimes that compile and build "dies" on me with some sort of error message about one particular line / file / statement. But I have learned over the years not to take a look at the immediate error message, but to note that the software has been built correctly by many other people in the past, and take a wider view / look to see what the issues were that lead to the build dying.  It may be something missed from an environment setting, it may be the absence of another piece of software (a dependency).    Fixing the immediate problem usually leads to a further problem a few lines later, whereas taking a wider look and fixing environments and dependencies - more work though it may be before I try to build again - usually leads to permanent results.

Perhaps there are parallels to be drawn?  Do we have any figures for the effectiveness of immediate and wider measures so that we can see the best way to reduce the number of my builds that dies, or the number of people who die at their own hand under trains?

[a-driver]

I think you can provide deterrents to those considering committing suicide on the railway like the platform fencing but you will never completely prevent it.  Unfortunately a persons decision to commit suicide is made long before they arrive at a railway station or specific location and a lot are the result of the person suffering depression. I know the Samaritans have posters up at 'hotspots' but, like I said, the decision is made long before someone sees those posters.   
Anyone intent on accessing the railway though, will be able to do it with ease, it is not possible to completely prevent access.  I'm not going to be specific on types of locations but there's plenty and believe it or not, there's apparently websites detailing these locations.
There must however be statistics out there which highlight those who are most vulnerable based on age, gender, ethnic origin etc.  There's always been a suggestion, and I stress I've not seen anything of fact to back this up, but arranged marriages are a root cause and that's why we have a higher number in certain locations. But those statistics surely can be used within communities so funding and help can be used to address these issues

What certainly needs to change though is the attitude towards the support and treatment of people suffering severe depression.  Anyone on the railway knows there are specific times of the year when the number of fatalities on the railway increases

   

[Red Squirrel]

...the decision is made long before someone sees those posters.     

My understanding is that the Samaritans' signs at Clifton Suspension Bridge, along with some other fairly 'light touch' measures there, have been quite effective in reducing the number of suicides. Few people are truly determined to end it all, and those that are are more likely to do so in a private rather than a public place.

I think it is right to focus on hotspots, and to find ways of identifying victims (for victims they truly are) while they can still be helped.

[phile]

After the fatality in S.Wales this week, I was thinking about why a particular section of railway in S.Wales seems to suffer so much and have some thoeries as to why it seems to be a fatality hotspot, but will save these for a private forum as I would not like to give anyone who was half considering something any ideas...

Ultimately a lot of the suicides can probably be dealt with long before they become suicides if the general attitude towards mental health issues in this country changes and there is less taboo surrounding the problems that do affect us all to some degree at some point in our lives. Some people cope better than others, and those who suffer most should have easy access to proper help. Ideally, it should feel no worse going to your healthcare provider with a mental health problem than it does if you have a chest infection or something.

The trespasser deaths (and many level crossing accidents) are caused primarly by ignorance and I'm not sure you can do an awful lot about that!

Some of the fatalities along the SWML^▸ (South Western Mail Line) over a period of time and which have occurred at night have been people(no doubt legless) taking short cuts across the tracks.

[TaplowGreen]

Money no object - platform doors like the new tube platforms. May need extra doors/sensors if different stock=different lengths=different door placements, but as I said, this is money no object.

Just about the only guaranteed way to prevent suicides from stations.

But most would simply find an access elsewhere, so I'm not sure there is a physical solution.

Agreed - all the previous posts are sincere and well intentioned however I feel if someone has made up their mind to "end it all" in this way then they will get onto the tracks by some means - it's surprisingly easy to get onto the tracks themselves around my way.

To be honest it's probably more a case of treating the cause (mental illness/depression) rather than the symptoms and helping people beofre they get to such a desparate state.