Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
I need help
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 18:55 05 Dec 2022
- Train strikes: RMT union rejects offer to stop Christmas walkouts
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 30/03/23 - Railfuture Annual, Leeds

On this day
5th Dec (1927)
Post Office Underground opens to Paddington (*)

Train RunningShort Run
17:26 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
19:07 London Paddington to Bedwyn
16:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
16:33 London Paddington to Taunton
17:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
17:30 Warminster to Great Malvern
18:21 Plymouth to Truro
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 05, 2022, 06:56:45 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[291] End date for Castles - initially a Rumour Mill thread
[106] Drayton Green
[65] Rail unions strike action 2022/2023
[39] Advent Quiz - December 2022
[36] Where would YOU like to go in 2023?
[19] Trial of new revenue protection technology
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Conditions of carriage, is it enforced?  (Read 8330 times)
Hero Member
Posts: 444

View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2007, 01:26:21 pm »

The problem with the current system is that you have different practices between staff and different policies between companies.  Why not just do what is done in most other countries and allow the sale of all tickets on the train but add a ^3 to ^5 "commission" to all on-train sales.  Make this consistant and nationwide.

The "commision" should be set a a level to discourage the opertunistic fare dodger but to be affordable to the genuine customer who can't buy a ticjet at the station because the queques are too long or because they are running late.  And don't call it a "penalty" because you make your genuine customers feel like criminals.
^ I think that's a great idea. I hate to feel like a criminal just for arriving at the station.

Also as I've said earlier, ticket offices on smaller stations (Keynsham, Oldfield Park, etc) should be open longer.
Hero Member
Posts: 2530

View Profile
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2007, 03:36:07 pm »

I'm not sure I agree with the last comments.

For example, on the morning services from Nailsea into Bristol (the High Speed services), the train managers almost always come down the train asking "Does anyone need to buy a ticket?" (And lots do of course, as the ticket buying facilities are totally inadequate, now the station is unstaffed.) Now this is on a service covered by penalty fares. So FGW (First Great Western) staff are effectively accepting that it's OK to buy a ticket on the train. And if you don't you can always buy one at TM(resolve), no questions asked.

So, what happens the first day FGW finally decide to impose the regime? In the words of the Kaiser Chiefs, I predict a riot.
I have said in this forum before that I don't agree with unstaffed stations being part of the penalty fares scheme, my last comments refer to staffed stations.
Hero Member
Posts: 2530

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2007, 03:40:59 pm »

The reason Penalty fares were introduced (by BR (British Rail(ways))!!!) is for routes where stations are close together and thus on-train ticket checks are not possible, to allow people to purchase tickets on the train is asking for trouble as there is no incentive for people to pay for their journey and thus "try it on" and the railway looses money, fares go up even more and no money to invest!

Every penalty fare station has clear notices indicating what happens if you board without a ticket and if you choose to ignor them then there's only one person to blame if you get Penalty fared! It may seem harsh if people are running late etc but you can't have one rule for one and a different rule for another. Would you go into Tesco and run out with your shopping without paying for it because you didn't want to queue up because you were late??

Yes you can.

Someone who walks straight to th excess fare window and declares they came from a penalty station but had a reason for no ticket is NOT TRYING TO EVADE PAYING

Someone who tries getting through thr barrier first - IS

Someone who invents their embarkation at an unmanned station - IS

When I declared I got on at egham - there were 4 unmanned stations between there and putney I could have boarded at -  but I was honest - and penalised for it
I do take your point BUT the proffessional opportunist fare dodger would arrive at the station and if the barriers were open (which they quite often seem to be at Plymouth and Exeter!!) they would walk staright out of the station, if the barriers were in operation then they would walk staright up to the window and make out that they were late or their dog ate their ticket etc, etc...... I'm not saying that you are a fare dodger but rules are rules!
Hero Member
Posts: 3117

View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2007, 05:25:20 pm »

I guess I cant see, in the age of credit cards etc, what is wrong with buying a ticket on the train!

Most other countries allow it.

Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."

"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
Hero Member
Posts: 2530

View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2007, 05:41:33 pm »

I explained why TOC (Train Operating Company)'s don't allow tickets to be purchased on the train, do you expect a guard to go through and sell everyone a ticket on a packed commuter train? you would need about 20 guards on the train! I work on trains and if tickets were sold on trains then the railways would loose millions. I sense sour grapes because you got a PF (Penalty Fare)?HuhHuhHuh could you imagine the underground without barriers? What your suggesting just isn't practical.
Hero Member
Posts: 2738

View Profile
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2008, 11:31:25 am »

I wholeheartedly agree with Vacman's point about the rules needing to be enforced by everyone or it just undermines them.   Lax enforcement is also unfare on the passenger.  I would argue that it is unfair of a company to lull a passger into a false sense of security by allowing him to buy a tciket on the train and then throwingthe book at him the following week by enforcing therules properly. 

I don't object to barriered stations either but like so much else in this world it is not a question of what FGW (First Great Western) does but the way that it does it.

If you are going to have barriers, then have enough of them for everyone to get through quickly and keep them closed in the evening when the yobs come out to play ticketless travel increases and  the platform would be safer if it wasn't open.  If you are gong to crack-down on tickless travel then install more ticket machines and open more ticket windows.

And if you are going to enforce the Conditions of carriage on Passengers them someone should enforce them on FGW as well.  If I get a penalty for travelling without a ticket then FGW should be fined for every occasion that they have refused to sell me a combination of tickets (prefectly legal under the NCC) at Bath station.

We need an authority with the power to carry out spot checks on ticket sales to make sure FGW is abiding by the law and issue rules like "you may only install a barrier at station X if you have Y number of working ticket machines and at least Z ticket staff"  Passengers will only abide by the law if there is a penalty and someone like Vacman to enforce it.  FGW will only abide by teh law and its franchise conditions if there is a powerful authority to hand out stiff penalties when it fails.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

Pages: 1 [2]
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page