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stuving
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« Reply #3330 on: August 30, 2017, 19:51:37 » |
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I see that the West Country HSTs▸ are using a new route (new at least to me!) to avoid Reading during the 16th/17th September blockade. They will, in the up direction, be calling Swindon and then routeing Didcot West Curve, Oxford, Islip, High Wycombe, South Ruislip, Greenford, OOC▸ and Paddington non-stop from Swindon. I have done all parts of this route but not in one direct HST.
That applies to South Wales too - one train each way each route per hour. |
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ChrisB
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« Reply #3331 on: August 30, 2017, 20:51:10 » |
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I understood there's a stop in Oxford to pick up a Chiltern pilot
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #3332 on: August 30, 2017, 22:19:13 » |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #3333 on: August 31, 2017, 12:49:48 » |
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I understood there's a stop in Oxford to pick up a Chiltern pilot
Yes, there will have to be. Train Manager's will sign the route, but drivers won't. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #3334 on: August 31, 2017, 13:50:05 » |
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I understood there's a stop in Oxford to pick up a Chiltern pilot
Yes, there will have to be. Train Manager's will sign the route, but drivers won't. What does pilot mean in this case? Like a harbour pilot on a ship, who acts as a guide but someone else still is at the wheel and the captain remains in command (I'm not quite sure how this translates to a train but presumably they would give advance warning to the driver of stations, signals, speed limits, and so on); or someone who will actually drive the train for that section then hand over when they get back to the route the driver knows (presumably OOC▸ ) (in which case why isn't this pilot called a driver)? |
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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paul7575
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« Reply #3335 on: August 31, 2017, 16:20:54 » |
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What does pilot mean in this case? Like a harbour pilot on a ship, who acts as a guide but someone else still is at the wheel and the captain remains in command (I'm not quite sure how this translates to a train but presumably they would give advance warning to the driver of stations, signals, speed limits, and so on); or someone who will actually drive the train for that section then hand over when they get back to the route the driver knows (presumably OOC▸ ) (in which case why isn't this pilot called a driver)?
I thought the usual term used was 'conductor driver'. Maybe there are historic differences in terminology... Paul |
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #3336 on: August 31, 2017, 19:05:48 » |
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You are 'conducted over the route by a conductor driver' (official terminology) or 'need to be piloted' or something similar (employee slang).
Procedure is pretty much as Bmnlbzzz described, and usually involves freight company drivers.
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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Surrey 455
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« Reply #3337 on: August 31, 2017, 23:42:59 » |
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You are 'conducted over the route by a conductor driver' (official terminology) or 'need to be piloted' or something similar (employee slang).
Procedure is pretty much as Bmnlbzzz described, and usually involves freight company drivers.
Does the conductor driver leave the controls occasionally to check tickets?  |
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Electric train
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« Reply #3338 on: September 01, 2017, 08:07:21 » |
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You are 'conducted over the route by a conductor driver' (official terminology) or 'need to be piloted' or something similar (employee slang).
Procedure is pretty much as Bmnlbzzz described, and usually involves freight company drivers.
The history of this gets confused in places, this is my little understanding of it When the signalling is out of use for any reason could be Absolute Block, Token Block or track circuited MAS trains need to operate over a single line trains could be "Piloted" through the section(s) that was a man posted at a signal or signal box who after seeking authority from the signaller would conduct the train though the section, that is he would ride in the cab with the driver and get off at the end of the effected area, he would then conduct a train back, slow process as there was only one Pilotman. Most of this is dealt with by talking a train through by the use of cab secure radio Another Pilot was an locomotive coupled to the head of a train where the driver of the had not signed a route, typically this was where a "foreign" engine was working another companies metals so was piloted through the route. Today its more practical to place a driver conductor as a pilot in the train to conduct the driver of the train over an unsigned route. |
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Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
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rower40
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« Reply #3339 on: September 04, 2017, 16:01:35 » |
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The history of this gets confused in places, this is my little understanding of it
When the signalling is out of use for any reason could be Absolute Block, Token Block or track circuited MAS trains need to operate over a single line trains could be "Piloted" through the section(s) that was a man posted at a signal or signal box who after seeking authority from the signaller would conduct the train though the section, that is he would ride in the cab with the driver and get off at the end of the effected area, he would then conduct a train back, slow process as there was only one Pilotman. Most of this is dealt with by talking a train through by the use of cab secure radio
Another Pilot was an locomotive coupled to the head of a train where the driver of the had not signed a route, typically this was where a "foreign" engine was working another companies metals so was piloted through the route. Today its more practical to place a driver conductor as a pilot in the train to conduct the driver of the train over an unsigned route.
A classic case of the same word being used for various different things: "Pilot" engine: engine attached to the front of a train, to provide additional power. The engine already attached to the train is named the "train engine". "Pilot"man working: This may be co-incidence, but I understood that, in this case only, "PILOT" is an acronym for "Person In Lieu Of Token". The man in question wears an armband with "PILOT" written on it, and he liaises with the signaller as to whether to give permission for the train to proceed, and which signals the driver may ignore. |
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Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 5208
There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #3340 on: September 04, 2017, 16:49:35 » |
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...I understood that, in this case only, "PILOT" is an acronym for "Person In Lieu Of Token".
A backronym, or I'm a Dutch squirrel's uncle. There is a clear sense of a pilot as a guide, and that surely is what this is. Back in the unenlightened days when this method of working was devised, people hadn't been invented - there were only 'men' (e.g. fireman, signalman etc). So it would have to have been 'Man In Lieu Of Token', or MILOT. This is rather confirmed by the fact that all the armbands I've ever seen say 'PILOT MAN' (with or without the space). And MILOTMAN is tautological as well as a bit silly-sounding. So: No. |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 5208
There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #3341 on: September 04, 2017, 21:11:02 » |
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Found this rather super film about wrong line working. No prizes for working out where Averton Hammer and Boiland are, but see if you can work it out before you get to the end of the film! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJP3l9tSuwo |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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rower40
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« Reply #3342 on: September 04, 2017, 21:37:39 » |
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...I understood that, in this case only, "PILOT" is an acronym for "Person In Lieu Of Token".
A backronym, or I'm a Dutch squirrel's uncle. There is a clear sense of a pilot as a guide, and that surely is what this is. Back in the unenlightened days when this method of working was devised, people hadn't been invented - there were only 'men' (e.g. fireman, signalman etc). So it would have to have been 'Man In Lieu Of Token', or MILOT. This is rather confirmed by the fact that all the armbands I've ever seen say 'PILOT MAN' (with or without the space). And MILOTMAN is tautological as well as a bit silly-sounding. So: No. Fairy Nuff. I'm still going to use the backronym as an aide-memoire for how Pilotman-working is used. |
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #3343 on: September 13, 2017, 13:55:01 » |
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With thanks to several members of the Coffee Shop forum for their subsequent posts, I've now moved their more light-hearted discussion to a new topic, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18703.0  |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #3344 on: September 13, 2017, 16:45:20 » |
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%0 years ago I piloted a train where the driver hadn't signed the route.
One winter's Sunday night at Sutton with the line to Victoria via Hackbridge shut with all trains going via West Croydon to Selhurst. As ASM▸ I was doing bus replacement late shift.
About 21:00 confronted by Station Inspector to say the driver of an up Bognor fast ( 8 COR/Nelson, they were routed via Sutton in those days). doesn't know road and there was no pilotman/conductor available. I offered to take him knowing all the signals, I can still remember them. We trotted round south London at 40 mph and I was dropped at Selhurst on the Up Main platform. Via a piece of track no longer in place. We had all greens except for West Croydon B's distant which they never pulled because it was a long pull round a corner and usually all trains stopped in any case.
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