Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 11:35 19 Apr 2024
* Children among nine dead in Russia strike on Ukraine
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
19th Apr (1938)
Foundation, Beatties of London (link)

Train RunningCancelled
09:59 Cardiff Central to Taunton
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
12:04 Bristol Temple Meads to Filton Abbey Wood
12:54 Filton Abbey Wood to Bristol Temple Meads
Short Run
09:27 Carmarthen to London Paddington
11:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Severn Beach
16:31 Barnstaple to Axminster
Delayed
08:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
09:23 Swansea to London Paddington
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 19, 2024, 11:45:38 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[149] Rail to refuge / Travel to refuge
[137] Rail delay compensation payments hit £100 million
[56] Signage - not making it easy ...
[11] IETs at Melksham
[10] Ferry just cancelled - train tickets will be useless - advice?
[9] From Melksham to Tallinn (and back round The Baltic) by train
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 ... 53 54 [55] 56 57 ... 230
  Print  
Author Topic: Reading Station improvements  (Read 1361628 times)
Louis94
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 446


View Profile
« Reply #810 on: August 31, 2012, 19:28:13 »

Perhaps the XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s terminating at Rdg used the old P7 because it was there and available, and thus it made sense for them to run RL to/from Didcot.  Maybe the new layout will provide an opportunity to run them ML and thus they would naturally stable in P3 or (the new) P7. 

Presumably the new track layout was designed with an operating plan in mind - it would be ineteresting to see it.

I understand the new layout will have a fly under for XC services to get to the RL lines from P3 and P7, it makes sense for them to use the RLs to reduce conflicts at Didcot East Junction. Not to sure P7 would be used to terminate XC services I can see them being kept as now using P3, given P7 will be used by all services bound for the Reading West direction coming from the East.
Logged
paul7575
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5318


View Profile
« Reply #811 on: August 31, 2012, 20:28:53 »

It's all a bit 'chicken and egg' anyway.  Clearly there are aspects of the existing timetable that were designed around the pre-rebuild layout. 

So there's a risk of it being a waste of time us repeatedly trying to fit the existing timetable onto the new station layout, it may well be that the eventual timetable changes in all sorts of subtle ways (as 'Gordon' hints at above) - starting with the May 2013 version...

Paul 
Logged
SandTEngineer
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3485


View Profile
« Reply #812 on: August 31, 2012, 21:04:41 »

Perhaps the XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s terminating at Rdg used the old P7 because it was there and available, and thus it made sense for them to run RL to/from Didcot.  Maybe the new layout will provide an opportunity to run them ML and thus they would naturally stable in P3 or (the new) P7. 

Presumably the new track layout was designed with an operating plan in mind - it would be ineteresting to see it.

I understand the new layout will have a fly under for XC services to get to the RL lines from P3 and P7, it makes sense for them to use the RLs to reduce conflicts at Didcot East Junction. Not to sure P7 would be used to terminate XC services I can see them being kept as now using P3, given P7 will be used by all services bound for the Reading West direction coming from the East. 

The connecting line will be known as the 'Reading Festival Line' Grin

It will allow connection from the West End Relief lines to Platforms 3,7 and 8 by diving under the Up and Down Main lines near the present Reading West Junction and also from the West End Main Lines by means of a flat junction. The new Reading West curve will also connect to the West End Relief lines by means of the same dive-under (which will thus carry three tracks).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2012, 21:21:05 by SandTEngineer » Logged
Gordon the Blue Engine
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 752


View Profile
« Reply #813 on: September 01, 2012, 09:16:25 »

Perhaps the XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s terminating at Rdg used the old P7 because it was there and available, and thus it made sense for them to run RL to/from Didcot.  Maybe the new layout will provide an opportunity to run them ML and thus they would naturally stable in P3 or (the new) P7. 

Presumably the new track layout was designed with an operating plan in mind - it would be ineteresting to see it.

I understand the new layout will have a fly under for XC services to get to the RL lines from P3 and P7, it makes sense for them to use the RLs to reduce conflicts at Didcot East Junction. Not to sure P7 would be used to terminate XC services I can see them being kept as now using P3, given P7 will be used by all services bound for the Reading West direction coming from the East.
I take your point re terminators not using P7 - more logical that terminators use P3 and through XC's (in both directions) using P7. 

The point about XC's using RLs to avoid conflicts at Didcot East could equally be applied to fast Padd-Oxfords/Costwold line.  It is not a good use of the RL line capacity to have the XC's using them, as their journey time Rdg - Didcot East is so much less than the stoppers.  For example, the xx41 XC from Rdg-Birm etc is right behind the previous xx23 Rdg-Oxford stopper by Didcot East, which severely limits the pathing opportunities for northbound Freighliners etc (ie none can set off from Rdg between the xx23 and xx41).  To maximise total line capacity (ML and RL) between Rdg and Didcot it's far better to put the the fast trains on ML and slow trains on RL.  If you can visualise the old train planning graphs, lots of parallel lines is good, unparallel lines are bad, if you're trying to maximise line capacity.
Logged
Louis94
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 446


View Profile
« Reply #814 on: September 01, 2012, 10:04:13 »

The point about XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s using RLs to avoid conflicts at Didcot East could equally be applied to fast Padd-Oxfords/Costwold line.  It is not a good use of the RL line capacity to have the XC's using them, as their journey time Rdg - Didcot East is so much less than the stoppers.  For example, the xx41 XC from Rdg-Birm etc is right behind the previous xx23 Rdg-Oxford stopper by Didcot East, which severely limits the pathing opportunities for northbound Freighliners etc (ie none can set off from Rdg between the xx23 and xx41).  To maximise total line capacity (ML and RL) between Rdg and Didcot it's far better to put the the fast trains on ML and slow trains on RL.  If you can visualise the old train planning graphs, lots of parallel lines is good, unparallel lines are bad, if you're trying to maximise line capacity.

Those services do come from London though, so it makes sense to keep them on the fast lines, especially as they already fit into the First Great Western timetable on the MLs.

Its worth noting that near enough all of XC services on a weekday depart at the same time as a service to Swansea/Cardiff, which use the MLs at xx11 and xx41, so when these operate XC have no choice but to use the SLs. On a saturday when the xx41 is not every hour, but every 2 hours to Cheltenham, XC do sometimes use the MLs to Didcot East.

With the increase in services after the introduction of new trains on the MLs to/from Swindon at Didcot East, I can see that XC services being kept on the SLs throughout the week to keep conflict to a minimum at Didcot East, I'd imagine FGW (First Great Western) will have priority at using the capacity for crossing over to go to Oxford there given they are the main service operator and services will generally already have a path on the FLs all the way from/to London.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10116


View Profile
« Reply #815 on: September 02, 2012, 16:21:01 »

Worth mentioning that the HLOS (High Level Output Specification) stated an upgrade of the relief line speed from 100mph to 125mph between Reading and Didcot, so the disparity of running times between stoppers/freight and expresses will become even bigger.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Gordon the Blue Engine
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 752


View Profile
« Reply #816 on: September 02, 2012, 18:58:38 »


Its worth noting that near enough all of XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services on a weekday depart at the same time as a service to Swansea/Cardiff, which use the MLs at xx11 and xx41, so when these operate XC have no choice but to use the SLs. On a saturday when the xx41 is not every hour, but every 2 hours to Cheltenham, XC do sometimes use the MLs to Didcot East.

With the increase in services after the introduction of new trains on the MLs to/from Swindon at Didcot East, I can see that XC services being kept on the SLs throughout the week to keep conflict to a minimum at Didcot East, I'd imagine FGW (First Great Western) will have priority at using the capacity for crossing over to go to Oxford there given they are the main service operator and services will generally already have a path on the FLs all the way from/to London.

Louis, the strategic decision as to whether to run the XC's on ML or RL between Reading and Didcot will be taken in the context of all the demands for paths, including the increasing freight flows from/to Southampton etc. which will need capacity on the RL's. The timings will follow that decison, not vice versa.

And I don't know on what basis you assert that FGW get prioriity at Didcot East as they are the "main service operator".  Network Rail does not operate the network that way: if it did, XC would get a pretty raw deal as their trains trundle around the country.



Logged
Gordon the Blue Engine
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 752


View Profile
« Reply #817 on: September 02, 2012, 20:59:33 »

Worth mentioning that the HLOS (High Level Output Specification) stated an upgrade of the relief line speed from 100mph to 125mph between Reading and Didcot, so the disparity of running times between stoppers/freight and expresses will become even bigger.

Makes you wonder why they are upgrading RL's to 125 mph.  With Oxford stoppers currently at 2 per hour (and possibly increasing), and all the freights mainly at 75 mph, a 125mph path will really kill RL capacity.   Even with electrification Oxford stoppers will still need maybe 23 minutes from Reading to Didcot East.  Reading West J to Didoct East J is about 16 miles: with the new layout (75 mph) freights may do it in say 15 minutes.  At 125 mph you're looking at 7-8 minutes.  So every 125 mph path will take (at the very least) 2 freight paths and 3-4 stopper paths.

So I can't believe they'll ever time (on a regular basis) a 125 mph path on the RLs.

.... (as an afterthought) if the stoppers increased to 3 per hour ie every 20 minutes, you couldn't get a robust 125 mph path in between them unless you relied on very tight margins at one or both ends.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2012, 08:49:51 by Gordon the Blue Engine » Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4452


View Profile
« Reply #818 on: September 16, 2012, 13:23:14 »

There seems to be a large carne in use demolishing the covering for the steps down onto platform 10.  Are they replacing these with temporary steps so that they can finish the new platform 11? Or are they going to use the existing temporary steps on the other side?
Logged
Jason
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 543


View Profile
« Reply #819 on: September 17, 2012, 12:10:30 »

There seems to be a large carne in use demolishing the covering for the steps down onto platform 10

As of this morning the covering had been replaced by the same temporary corrugated metal in use elsewhere in the station.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10116


View Profile
« Reply #820 on: September 18, 2012, 13:13:45 »

Here's some more details of what to expect from the track layout after the Easter 2013 blockade.

Five maps, showing the new layout running from west to east, complete with signal locations and routings

The first one shows the layout at the Tilehurst end, and shows the temporary Whitehouse Junction which is where the current formation is slewed northwards, so that the main lines run roughly where the relief lines currently lie and the relief lines roughly where the old goods lines used to lie.  This will enable work to begin on the west end viaduct and other grade separation works.







The second one shows where the middle entrance to the new traincare depot will be located.







The third one is where things start to get interesting.  The new west end of the station with new crossovers and the new platforms 12/13/14 and 15.  Several things to note here:

1) Platforms 1 and 2 remain unchanged.
2) Platform 3 closes (temporarily?). 
3) Platform 7 will take up its new role as the usual platform for services from London heading down the Berks & Hants to Bedwyn and the West Country (though platforms 8/9/10 could also see trains heading in that direction).
4) Platform 8 changes from the current up main platform to the down main loop platform usually handling express trains heading for the west, and acting as a reserve platform, as well as quite possibly for some of the reversing XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services from/to the South Coast.
5) Platform 9 becomes the down main platform which will be used for the majority of express services heading towards the Didcot direction.
6) Platform 10 becomes the up main platform, with the trains that currently use platform 8.
7) Platform 11 will close as a bay platform and then be reconstructed as a through platform after Easter 2013.  When it reopens it will become the up main loop platform.  Until that time, I should imagine that platform 9 will act as the 'reserve' up main platform, with the new relief platforms also used, but this is the only real temporary weakness in the new layout that I can see.
8 ) Platform 12 opens and becomes the down relief platform
9) Platform 13 opens and becomes the down relief loop platform.
10) Platform 14 opens and becomes the up relief loop platform.
11) Platform 15 opens and becomes the new up relief platform.
12) I should imagine that platforms 12 and 15 will handle most of the through relief line services, with platforms 13 and 14 dealing with the London to Reading terminators and reversing XC services.
13) This map also shows the new east end connection to the new depot.
14) All through platforms are bi-directionally signalled, and you can deduct from the junction indicators that there is a lot of flexibility built into the system, with more to follow when platforms 3 and 11 reopen.







Map 4 shows the east end of the station.  Again much to note:

1) The underpass to the southern lines opens and is known (provisionally) as the 'up and down low level' line.  Trains can be routed from/to platforms 13/14 or 15 from this line.  Trains from/to the southern lines can also be routed from/to platforms 7/8 and 9 (and platform 10 at a later date) by using the current spur line as now, as well of course using the dedicated platforms 4/5 or 6.
2) Trains from the down main and down relief can access any of the through platforms either by using the crossovers at Kennet Bridge Junction (where work to reconfigure has just started), or from signals located on 'Gantry 1' at the east end of the station.
3) Future track, crossings and signal routings can be seen, including a less conflicting routing from platform 9 (in the up direction) to the up main.







The final map doesn't show much to be honest, though the junction indicators on the signals in the down direction show how all platforms can be accessed.




All in all this just confirms what we'd been told would happen, but it demonstrates just how it will happen.  The amount of work that has gone in to produce such a flexible layout is commendable, not to mention the fact that it is and will be constructed whilst this station remains fully open.  So far, so good!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
bobm
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 9832



View Profile
« Reply #821 on: September 18, 2012, 13:23:34 »

It certainly looks very flexible and gets rid of the problem caused when a train is delayed or fails while standing at Platform 7 and the following train is being held at the signal just outside the station with nowhere to go.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10116


View Profile
« Reply #822 on: September 18, 2012, 13:38:45 »

Yes, initially access will be available from the final signal on the down main to platforms 8 and 9, and eventually platform 10 as well.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Oxman
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 423


View Profile
« Reply #823 on: September 18, 2012, 15:20:15 »

Thanks II - very interesting indeed. Two comments:

I can't see any access from the relief platforms to the Westbury lines, so can't see how reversing XCs (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) can use the reliefs. That would mean approaching on the up main and probably using platform 8. Services could cross to the relief lines at either Reading West or Didcot East junctions.

Whilst services on the down main benefit from the extra platforms, its not so good on the up main. At present, up services regularly use 8, 9 and 10. I can't see 8 and 9 in the new layout being used much for up services - they would have to traverse a long section of the down main before reaching the crossovers at Kennet bridge, which would seriously impact on down services. So I reckon most will use platform 10, including up Westburys, for the same reason. This would suggest that Up main trains from Didcot will regularly be switched to the up relief at Tilehurst East junction, as this is the only way of accessing the relief platforms.

Still good stuff though!
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10116


View Profile
« Reply #824 on: September 18, 2012, 15:46:32 »

Thanks II - very interesting indeed. Two comments:

I can't see any access from the relief platforms to the Westbury lines, so can't see how reversing XCs (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) can use the reliefs. That would mean approaching on the up main and probably using platform 8. Services could cross to the relief lines at either Reading West or Didcot East junctions.

Whilst services on the down main benefit from the extra platforms, its not so good on the up main. At present, up services regularly use 8, 9 and 10. I can't see 8 and 9 in the new layout being used much for up services - they would have to traverse a long section of the down main before reaching the crossovers at Kennet bridge, which would seriously impact on down services. So I reckon most will use platform 10, including up Westburys, for the same reason. This would suggest that Up main trains from Didcot will regularly be switched to the up relief at Tilehurst East junction, as this is the only way of accessing the relief platforms.

Yes, that's a very good point (or lack of points!) regarding the relief platforms being used for XC services.  There will presumably be that option after the final alterations have taken place, but until then it looks like XC's are most likely to use platform 8 - which in itself will block the up Westbury line, so that's another (temporary) restriction.

And, yes, I can see the new relief line platforms also being used for some of the up main line services, much in the way that platforms 9 and 10 are currently used for the same purpose when 8 is occupied.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 ... 53 54 [55] 56 57 ... 230
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page