Re: Cheltenham Spa to Paddington

[whole diary]

[willc]

There simply isn't the volume of traffic on either route to support the kind of thing you suggest - if there was, then FGW^▸ (First Great Western), and BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) before it, would have been running timetables with the mix of trains you suggest.

The proposition that you should bypass Gloucester is just bizarre if you're trying to make an hourly London service pay its way.

And define a 'smaller' station. The town of Charlbury has a population of about 3,000, yet its station generates more journeys each year than Evesham, with a population nearing 25,000. Remove stops at what may on the face of it seem 'smaller' stations on the Cotswold Line and you would end up with very empty, unprofitable fast trains to Worcester, hence the current service pattern, calling at 'smaller' stations along the way, so that it actually pays its way.

[inspector_blakey]

I have split off the Cotswold line discussion that flared up here and merged it with a previous thread discussing exactly the same issue on that board...if you're looking for it you'll find it from here onwards:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4881.msg62154#msg62154

[Deltic]

There simply isn't the volume of traffic on either route to support the kind of thing you suggest - if there was, then FGW^▸ (First Great Western), and BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) before it, would have been running timetables with the mix of trains you suggest.

The proposition that you should bypass Gloucester is just bizarre if you're trying to make an hourly London service pay its way.

Perhaps I didn't make clear what I was suggesting.  At the moment, Swindon to Cheltenham takes 1 hour and a couple of minutes.  Apart from the two hourly through services from Paddington it requires 2 units to operate this service, each of which is running for barely more than 50% of the time.  If the service were to split Swindon, all stations to Gloucester (50 minutes each way) and Swindon, non-stop to Cheltenham Spa (about the same), we could run the same frequency of service with the same number of units and provide a shorter and therefore more-attractive service between Swindon and Cheltenham. 

So far as missing out the stop at Gloucester goes, I am only advocating this because it is possible to maintain the frequency of Swindon - Gloucester and Swindon - Cheltenham with the same stock as is used for the current combined service.  However for this to be possible we would need to recast the through Paddington - Cheltenham service and probably require the double line to be reinstated from Swindon to Kemble.

My experience of Cotswold line cancellations on Monday led me to wonder whether extending the Swindon to Cheltenham non-stops to Worcester might give a faster overall journey time than the Cotswold line.  I can already hear the pitchforks being sharpened and torches being lit!

[Mookiemoo]

There simply isn't the volume of traffic on either route to support the kind of thing you suggest - if there was, then FGW^▸ (First Great Western), and BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) before it, would have been running timetables with the mix of trains you suggest.

The proposition that you should bypass Gloucester is just bizarre if you're trying to make an hourly London service pay its way.

Perhaps I didn't make clear what I was suggesting.  At the moment, Swindon to Cheltenham takes 1 hour and a couple of minutes.  Apart from the two hourly through services from Paddington it requires 2 units to operate this service, each of which is running for barely more than 50% of the time.  If the service were to split Swindon, all stations to Gloucester (50 minutes each way) and Swindon, non-stop to Cheltenham Spa (about the same), we could run the same frequency of service with the same number of units and provide a shorter and therefore more-attractive service between Swindon and Cheltenham. 

So far as missing out the stop at Gloucester goes, I am only advocating this because it is possible to maintain the frequency of Swindon - Gloucester and Swindon - Cheltenham with the same stock as is used for the current combined service.  However for this to be possible we would need to recast the through Paddington - Cheltenham service and probably require the double line to be reinstated from Swindon to Kemble.

My experience of Cotswold line cancellations on Monday led me to wonder whether extending the Swindon to Cheltenham non-stops to Worcester might give a faster overall journey time than the Cotswold line.  I can already hear the pitchforks being sharpened and torches being lit!

Nope - there used to be one peak hour service that went PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) via cheltenham and it takes longer!

[Deltic]

Yes but that was stopping at all stations, including reversal at Gloucester.  I'm proposing a non-stop Swindon - Cheltenham, which could be extended to Worcester, perhaps while the redoubling works are taking place.

We would probably need Swindon to Kemble doubled first in that case

[pullman]

If Cheltenham Spa had an hourly service to London, (direct) it could call at all stations in the Stroud valley including Gloucester, but making up time by running non stop Swindon-London or non stop Swindon-Reading rather than non stop Swindon-Cheltenham Spa as it would miss all the Stroud and Gloucester commuters. plus Swindon-Gloucester isn't fit for 90mph+ running.I think 

[Deltic]

Yes, but it's not direct is it.  My point is that it takes more than an hour to get from Swindon to Cheltenham, calling at all stations and reversing at Gloucester.  The distance by road is only 30 miles so the timing is uncompetitive.  With the present timetable, the units are standing at Swindon for over an hour and at Cheltenham for about 45 minutes so they are not being used very intensively.  If one unit runs Swindon, all stations to Gloucester and the other Swindon to Cheltenham non-stop, both could be accomplished in about 50 minutes so you would not need any more units and have reduced the journey time to Cheltenham by about 15 minutes.

The main flaw with my idea is that, because Gloucester has lost all of its long-distance Cross Country services, it would make connections more difficult from Kemble, Stroud, Stonehouse and Gloucester to the North.  There would probably also be pathing difficulties between Standish Junction and Cheltenham.  I just think Cheltenham should have a quicker service than the equivalent of 25 mph from Swindon.

[inspector_blakey]

...it could call at all stations in the Stroud valley including Gloucester, but making up time by running non stop Swindon-London or non stop Swindon-Reading rather than non stop Swindon-Cheltenham Spa

So it would be exactly the same as now but without the stop at Didcot then? Thereby saving all of about 7 minutes and removing the connection oppportunity for Oxford.