South Wales local services - Pembroke, Fishguard, Swanline, etc.

[whole diary]

[Hafren]

I doubt the crews that work north of Llanwrtyd/Llandrindod sign Pacers - they aren't really used in the Crewe/Shrewsbury area so the crews wouldn't need to be trained on them. I've also read of agreements (possibly with Howlta?) not to use them, but that could just be rumours.

I thought the last Swanline (22xx) was formed by the last arrival from Shrewsbury - it's often a 153 on weekdays - but maybe something more exotic happens to the diagrams on Saturdays.

There was also a 158 in the area on Thursday. I'm not sure which service it should have been on, because there was a bit of chaos following a bridge strike between Cardiff and Bridgend, but it ran empty through Neath around 6.45; the preceding Manchester had terminated at Swansea so maybe it was on that service. The next Manchester ended up being 2x175.

[anthony215]

One problem with the swanline is that they  stop at all stations. A better idea would be to reduce journeys times by running the swanline service non-stop between Bridgend & Port Talbot and have Pyle served by an Hourly Manchester service.

Also this would mean that if journey times were reduced then maybe swanline services could be increased to hourly.

Also i do know that are plans to extend the Ebbw Vale services through to Maesteg once the loop at Tondu has been sorted.

[Jez]

Pyle is the only station between Bridgend and Port Talbot so would they save that much time?

Interesting about the Maesteg-Ebbw Vale Service. Never undestood why Maesteg and Cardiff- Gloucester were combined in the first place as Maesteg was always a valley line service?

[Hafren]

I don't think Maesteg was officially part of Valley Lines - they just ran jointly operated through services. When they stopped running through there were some comments about the lack of through service to Queen St. It probably makes sense from a reliability point of view not to run through between Maesteg and the Valleys, in order to keep Platforms 6/7, with the constant flow of local trains, separate from the rest of the network. It also makes sense to run through to either Ebbw Vale or Gloucester in order to reduce terminating/shunting services in Plats 0-4. Running to Gloucester also provides a convenient through link to Newport.

Ebbw Vale and Maesteg are both suited to 150s, and both use the main lines, so a through service would make sense. Perhaps Chelt/Glos-Swanline would work in order to make them both hourly - both ends of the journey serve local stations that could do with an hourly service, ideally.

One suggestion I saw in some report in the last few years (completely forgotten what the report was!) was to cut Swanline to Port Talbot - Swansea, on the basis that when Tondu loop is completed there'll be more trains between Cardiff and Bridgend anyway. PT-Swansea could be made hourly using the existing two diagrams, but with a 25ish minute journey the turnarounds would be quite tight, and it would be difficult to make good connections at PTA^▸ (Passenger Transport Authority) with that constraint. If that were to happen Pyle would be transferred to the Manchester service.

Going back to the original post, I saw that the afternoon Pembroke Dock service was cancelled at Carmarthen yesterday because of a lack of train crew. It seems to happen once each summer - fortunately not a "key" weekend this time, unlike some years! They probably don't train too many Swansea crews on the route for the purpose of 2 turns a week for a third of the year.

[Jez]

I heard a rumour about the swanline being Swansea-Port Talbot but cant see that happening. People arent going to want to catch a train from Baglan to Cardiff and have to change at Port Talbot. The advantage at the moment is there are direct services to Swansea, Cardiff plus major towns Bridgend, Port Talbot and Neath from these small stations in both directions every 2 hours. The Manchesters can be used to suppliment this at peak times. 

Also I cant see Pyle or other swanline stops being a regular stop on the Manchester as this is a semi fast service which is why generally it only calls at Neath, Port Talbot and Bridgend between Swansea-Cardiff just like the London trains do. It would take forever to get to Manchester if it called at small stations, apart from peak time.

I noticed 2x 150s on the last Pembroke Dock service tonight. Lots of random units being used on that service recently.

[Hafren]

I saw that Pyle stops were added to some of the down Manchesters recently (1604 and 1804 CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)), giving it an hourly service during the early evening. With slight cuts to the longer dwell times at Swansea (and Cardiff on the down), if might be possible to give it a two-hourly stop to supplement the 2-hourly all stations until someone pays for them to go hourly. Pyle is quite a big place and could do with an hourly service of some sort even if the smaller stops have to wait a bit longer for a proper local hourly service. I note that on Sundays Pyle now has a 2-hourly service, but the others have lost the previous twice daily service, which ran at somewhat useless times for local journeys (e.g. an afternoon in Cardiff wasn't possible).

I have a feeling that terminating Swanline at PTA^▸ (Passenger Transport Authority) would just encourage local passengers to use Neath and Port Talbot instead. (No doubt the current infrequent service does the same.) Healthy numbers seem to use the Swanline stops during the peaks, but for real growth a decent frequency and through service is needed.

I think one of the reasons for the PTA-SWA^» (Swansea - next trains) idea was that it would provide paths for the half-hourly Maesteg service when Tondu has its loop. Having to fit the turnarounds in the platforms at Port Talbot, and fit the stopping service in between faster trains, would make it very difficult to time for good connections.
If they really have to terminate something short of Cardiff, I'd have thought a better option would be to terminate the second Maesteg each hour in the little-used bay at Bridgend - seems much more logical bearing in mind that it wouldn't take up a through platform, and being a half-hourly service, missed connections would be less of a problem, and there would still be an hourly through journey opportunity. Similarly, if Swanline ever becomes half hourly (!) one each hour might then terminate short. (Actually, I'd quite like them to redouble Gowerton, re-open Cockett and provide an additional local service to Llanelli, using the rolling stock magic wand - a proper local service across South Wales.  Having said all these aspirations, I have to say that, compared to what I know of some of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) West areas, we already have quite a good local service in some respects. )

[Jez]

Yeah I guess - Pyle is quite a big place compaired to Baglan and Briton Ferry.  Also its quite a distance from both Port Talbot and Bridgend.  When ive travelled on the early Manchester services which call at Pyle quite a few people have boarded the train there.

When are the extra Maesteg services starting?

[Jez]

Noticed a 175 seemed to be working one of the Swanline diagrams today. I think it was the 11.10 from Swansea which might have come off the heart of wales line?

I also noticed a few 158's and even a 150 on the Newport/Cardiff-Carmarthen/Milford Haven services today. Im guessing this was because there were engineering works between Newport and Hereford so not a usual service.

I also saw a 153 on platform 6 at Cardiff Central so this must have been working a valley service.

[Hafren]

Units seemed to be all over the place today! Possibly because of the blockade on the Marches - haven't checked what's going on, but they've been terminating at Newport on at least this and last Saturday. The 11.10 from Swansea would be the one that doesn't interact with Central Wales, although 175s have been known to go up there during longer blockades in order to cycle them.

If a 153 is on the valleys, I'd guess it was doing Coryton/Radyr, which I suspect is the only route that would cope with it at busier times, and I wouldn't have thought the 153s would be passed for the "proper" valleys, or signed by the Treherbert/Rhymney drivers. Last year during the Royal Welsh week they appeared on the Coryton/Radyr route, obviously as a means of cascading Pacers to 150 diagrams to free up 150s for the Heart of Wales.

Coming back form Tenby, the 1700 (1635? from PMD) was a 143 - fortunately not as busy as it would be in the holidays. Passed two other Pacers (another 143 and a  142 I think) on the way back - so all three ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) Pembroke diagrams (excluding the first/last expresses) covered by a Pacer! Passed a 150 at Llanelli on the 1821 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-SHR^» (Shrewsbury - next trains) so I'm wondering where all the 153s were! Perhaps they paired them all up and concentrated them on the two HoW^‡(resolve)/Swanline hybrid diagrams and Conwy Valley (along with that Valleys one!), or maybe just had very low availability.

A Pacer is quite good for views, compared to a 150 with its pillars or a 153 with the low seats, but the bounciness can't leave a great impression on tourists! What with the jointed track, curves and gradients I noticed the "liveliness" much more than I do on the routes where I normally experience Pacers. It was a bit of a novelty but someone of a nervous disposition who isn't used to it might have been a bit alarmed by some of the shaking and swaying in places.

In the morning the one that normally runs PMD-Manchester (today must have been NWP) was a 158. I saw another 158 in the evening (1705 from SWA to MFH) - I assume a second one as off top of head, assuming turnbacks at Newport, it didn't seem to trace back to the morning one.

Re Maesteg, I had a look on Google - a lot of the articles are a bit dated, but some from about a year ago suggest 2012, with the additional services initially terminating at Bridgend.

[Jez]

Im not sure where the 153's were - saw 1 on the valleys and 1 or 2 might have been on the other swanline.

I was looking at the 153 and thinking it isnt all that smaller than a 2 car pacer really - although im not sure how many can be seated in a pacer compaired to a 153. So im guessing 153's can cope with some of the routes, even at busier times. They seem quite long for a 1 car train.

The Manchester services were terminating in Newport so would stay there for around half an hour and then form the next Milford/Carmarthen service back. The Holyheads were starting at Hereford, a bit pointless having just Cardiff-Newport when there are already plenty of trains going to Newport.

Yeah a pacer isnt ideal between Carmarthen and Tenby - ive noticed Pacers seem to be used more and more on this service whilst the 153's and 150's are used on Swanline/Heart of Wales.

Last night the final Swansea- Cardiff service which leaves Swansea at 22xx was a 153. I noticed this as I live near the railway line so saw it pass. I travelled on this service on Friday night (2232 from Swansea) and it was a 150.  Not sure where this unit comes from?

[Hafren]

On weekdays the 2232 is often a 153, and I think it's formed by the working from Shrewsbury. I don't know about Saturdays.

The first up Swanline service, from Carmarthen, is usually a 175 on weekdays at least, and seems to sit in the sidings at Cardiff West and then form the 09.20 to Holyhead. Yesterday, assuming it's similar on Saturdays, without the Holyheads running, it must have just gone on to form the 09.14 Swanline etc.

A 153 is 23m long and a Pacer car is about 15 or 16m, so a set is about 10m longer than a 153, so a bit more space (which might be critical on many valley routes on a Saturday afternoon compared to a 153 working alone) but not a vast difference. The 153s have very little space between seats, so maybe that adds to the total number of seats as well. So a 153 can't be much smaller in terms of number of seats than a Pacer, but the vestibules and gangways are also smaller than on a Pacer, so a 153 is not as good for standing passengers. It's worth noting that with fairly narrow end doors, and fairly slow door operation, a 153 is not ideal for local services like the valleys, which could affect timekeeping, but then a Pacer's door layout is not hugely efficient either, compared to a 150.

The relative shortness of a Pacer, compared to another 2 car unit, is one reason why I'm concerned about them appearing on the busier Tenby diagrams. It was fine yesterday, but come the busiest days in July/August it could be tight. Last year it was just the lightest diagram that had the Pacer.

[Jez]

Ive noticed the first Swanline (0710 off Swansea which originates from Carmarthen) is a 175 - I guessed this would form the 0920 Holyhead.  Are the Holyhead services generally all 175's now on weekdays at least?

The 2232 Swanline im guessing forms the next days 08xx from Cardiff-Swanline-Heart of Wales line service which ends up in Shrewbury at 13xx.

Good point about yesterday's 0914 Swanline probably being that unit that would normally work Holyhead. Have to see if the same thing happens next Saturday. It would make sense as perhaps whatever would normally run the 0914 Swanline (a 150 I think) was in use elsewhere or out of service.

Its interesting that the 1900 fast service and 1910 stopping service from Swansea effectively swap around. I could understand them swapping it when the 1900 went to Cheltenham but now both units terminate at Cardiff it doesnt seem much point to use the 150 on the fast train. Also the 2000 from Swansea goes to Chester which is the only direct service West of Cardiff - Im guessing this is a way of terminating the unit at Chester rather than Manchester tho since the depot for 175's is there. That particular unit could end up on the Holyhead or even Manchester-North Wales services the next day.

 

[Hafren]

The diagrams I downloaded a few years ago show the 22.32 forming the ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) for the 07.50 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-PMD the next day. The morning workings have changed since then, so who knows...

The swapping of the 1900/1910 services is particularly annoying on Saturdays. The 1700 from Tenby sits at Carmarthen for half an hour because it's run earlier than the normal pattern from Pembroke Dock. This means passengers are told to change at Carmarthen onto the ex-Milford train that becomes the 1910, and then once they've changed there's an announcement that they're advised to change again onto the 1900. Some seem a bit confused, because the train from Tenby says Swansea on the front, and the one from Carmarthen is announced as going to Cardiff! In practice, it usually works well: the conductor on the first train often tells everyone individually to change at Carmarthen if they're going further, although they don't tell passengers going past Swansea to change again (either they don't realise it's held at Swansea or they're just trying to avoid information overload), and Carmarthen is hardly a difficult place to change. Then on the next leg there's an announcement approaching Swansea; yesterday the conductor saw the 150s waiting to form the 1900 and announced the platform. So it usually runs very smoothly, but now that they both terminate at Cardiff it does seem a bit unnecessary.

I'm not sure why the 1700 from Tenby doesn't run later: 1710 from PMD would be the usual pattern on other days; it would then cross the oncoming working at Tenby instead of Whitland. It does, however, provide good connectional opportunities for returning day trippers - possibly the intention of running it earlier on Summer Saturdays. I do have a technical gripe/query about the services crossing at Whitland to raise when I can be bothered to think it through

[Jez]

it does seem pointless the 1900 and 1910 swapping as both units as far as I know stay in Cardiff for a considerable amount of time afterwards. I think the 175 forms the last Cardiff-Carmarthen service at 23xx from Cardiff. This used to be a 150 before but now I guess is used to get the 175 back to Carmarthen overnight.

Ive noticed on a Saturday the 1900 is sometimes a 4 car and sometimes it isnt. I guess it depends on whether they want to take 2 cars off when it comes in from Ebbw Vale to Cardiff but on a Sat I think there is sufficient amount of people wanting to travel for it to be a 4 car on the 1738 swanline whilst still quite a lot on the 125 which leaves around 10 mins later.

[Hafren]

It's a pity they only seem to use 4 cars on Ebbw Vale and thus the 1738 on Saturdays. The 1738 could do with the extra space on weekdays.

The 2315 from Cardiff on weekdays seems to be a 175, although I haven't used it during the week for a while, but on Saturdays (when it leaves at 2240ish) it's been Sprinters when I've travelled back from Baglan in recent months (before and after the May change) - it's usually been 2x150, but on one occasion was 2x153. Unless it's changed recently the 1910 is usually 2 car (but 3 yesterday ) - is the SX 2315 usually 3?