First Great Western December 2007 Timetable Now Online

[whole diary]

[Lee]

See link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=1786

[Conner]

Any idea what the codes mean? Such as:1,+ and triple dots. Is one of them no buffet car? 

[paulsouthwales]

The Cross-Bristol timetables have not been put on yet!  These are the ones I am keen to see, as I guess are most of the members here?

[Timmer]

Any idea what the codes mean? Such as:1,+ and triple dots. Is one of them no buffet car? 

1 - also conveys 1st class accomodation.
dots and symbols will be to inform the graphic designer what symbols to include on the final printed version such as restaurant services, dates operated etc.

Whilst writing...its pretty much spot the difference with the timetables uploaded so far to the current operating timetable. We await the Cardiff-Portsmouth/Weymouth Bristol services timetable where they main changes will appear on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services this December tt change. Hopefully we wont have to wait too long.

[Timmer]

The Cross-Bristol timetables have not been put on yet!  These are the ones I am keen to see, as I guess are most of the members here?

Spot on Paul, that is the timetable that is going to have the most changes to it.

[paulsouthwales]

The Cross-Bristol timetables have not been put on yet!  These are the ones I am keen to see, as I guess are most of the members here?

Spot on Paul, that is the timetable that is going to have the most changes to it.

I note from the London-Hereford one, that the section between Worcester and Great Malvern features some through trains to/from Brighton and Weymouth which tends to clarify the cross-Bristol axis changes. 

[Conner]

I do not think 1 means first class as the 06.47 BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI))-PNZ is listed with a 1 in the London-West of England services.(page 2 train 2c43) I do not imagine that train having first class.

[Timmer]

I do not think 1 means first class as the 06.47 BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI))-PNZ is listed with a 1 in the London-West of England services.(page 2 train 2c43) I do not imagine that train having first class.

Could be an error OR FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are operating this service with an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) which they are planning to do in some cases to increase capacity on busy commuter services with the return journey operating a PNZ-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) IC^▸ (Inter City) service.

[Conner]

The return operates to Exmouth so i don't think it will be HST^▸ (High Speed Train). But the return is also listed with a 1. A bit weird. I hope it is a HST though as the PNZ-EXM is always packed because it connects to London.

[TerminalJunkie]

Any idea what the codes mean? Such as:1,+ and triple dots. Is one of them no buffet car? 

1 - also conveys 1st class accomodation.
dots and symbols will be to inform the graphic designer what symbols to include on the final printed version such as restaurant services, dates operated etc.

Actually, those 'codes' have been written to the PDF using the Symbol font when they normally use a font called BRFACE3. I suspect they can't embed the proper font either for copyright reasons or (because this is FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) they don't know what they're doing.

Rough set of translations:

• ] is the diamond 'Reservations available' symbol
• E (backwards) is 'Reservations Compulsory'
• + is the cup of tea in a saucer
• ( is a knife and fork
• | is a trolley
• Three dots is a knife and fork with a box around it

[courgettelawn]

I am slightly disturbed at the lack of services on the Newquay-Par line and the timings.  Hmm.

[paulsouthwales]

Any idea what the codes mean? Such as:1,+ and triple dots. Is one of them no buffet car? 

1 - also conveys 1st class accomodation.
dots and symbols will be to inform the graphic designer what symbols to include on the final printed version such as restaurant services, dates operated etc.

Actually, those 'codes' have been written to the PDF using the Symbol font when they normally use a font called BRFACE3. I suspect they can't embed the proper font either for copyright reasons or (because this is FGW^▸ (First Great Western)) they don't know what they're doing.

Rough set of translations:

• ] is the diamond 'Reservations available' symbol
• E (backwards) is 'Reservations Compulsory'
• + is the cup of tea in a saucer
• ( is a knife and fork
• | is a trolley
• Three dots is a knife and fork with a box around it

Well if I am reading this correctly, there are going to be trolleys on many London-Swansea services which is not good, and not what we were expecting!  The London - Cardiff shorter runs were supposed to be trolleys with full buffets being kept on the Swansea services.  This really is not good!  

[Timmer]

I stand corrected on the one not actually being a one. Upon enlarging the pdf what looks like a '1' now appears as a ] which as you say is for reservations as it appears on the reservations line which makes sense!   Apologies to anyone for the confusion there.

Shame that BRFACE3 doesnt work on pdf. It never did when FGW^▸ (First Great Western) used to put pdfs of their tt alterations booklets online either. There was a reason for this but I cant remember what it was, probably as you say a license issue.

[vacman]

I am slightly disturbed at the lack of services on the Newquay-Par line and the timings.  Hmm.

No different to every winter timetable on the Newquay branch since BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) cut the service to four trains per day in 1987!

[martyjon]

I have looked at some of the draft timetables and in particular the Looe branch makes for interesting perusal in particular.

With the exception of 3 services all other down services are scheduled to cover the route in 29 minutes, Liskeard depart to Looe arrive. The 3 that don't are two that are scheduled to call at Coombe which are scheudled for a 30 minute journey time and the other 1 is one that is scheduled for no stops, except of course the required stop and reversal at Coombe Junction, and this service covers the journey in 28 minutes. I fail to see why every service on this line cannot be timetabled to stop at every halt on the line as in my opinion to do this would cause no pathing problems whatsover when you consider the following summary based on the draft timetable.

All services that cover the route in 29 minutes are scheduled to cover the section from Sandplace to Looe, departure to arrival, in 9 minutes. These are the services which do not call at Coombe. The two that call at Coombe are scheduled 7 minutes for the same section???. If FGW^▸ (First Great Western) acknowledged this anomoly then a stop at Coombe could  be added to all services, including the non-stopper which could additionally call at all other stations on the line as well. Then there is the sectional timings between St. Keyne and Causeland and Causeland and Sandplace. Those stopping at Coombe have sectional timings of 3 and 4 minutes respectively whereas those that call at all the halts except Coombe have the sectional timings of 4 and 3 minutes .

Alternatively why dont FGW publish a timetable where all halts, with the exception of Coombe be made request stops and the Coombe platform be made the reversal point for the branch with Network Rail installing a cabinet on the platform at Coombe which would be no bigger than a telephone box from which a crew member would operate an electrically operated point at Coombe Junction. This point could alternatively be remotely operated from Liskeard box or indeed with electronics as they are today to be fully automatic with an override in Liskeard signal box which would be used on the occasions that a cement train operates to Moorswater.

Thats the down trains, the up trains similarly tell a story of inconsistencies in running times. Up trains not calling at Coombe have a journey time of 26 minutes whereas those that call at Coombe still command a 30 minute running time whereas the 1 'non-stop' service has an end to end journey time of 24 minutes. I would also question whether these up timings also take in consideration the climb up to Liskeard from Coombe Junction. Really, in my opinion, it wants the time and motion people on this with their stop watches and a complete review of the point to point timings on this branch and I suspect this would be the case with some other branch lines too.