2 weeks to answer a fare query!

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 23:48:05 +0100 (BST)

Dear Mr Ellis

Thank you for your email of 21 July 2010 regarding your intended journey between Melksham and Lymington Town on 22 July.
Please accept my sincere apologies for the length of time it has taken for us to respond and I appreciate this meant that I was unable to assist with your enquiry. I regret that the delay in our response was due to an increase in customer contact following a number of separate delay incidents across our network.

Whilst I hope that you were able to obtain an answer to your enquiry from an alternative source, I would like to take this opportunity to explain the difference in the fares offered for this journey.

The different fares between Melksham and Lymington Town relate to the route which the trains take. Both our 06:41 outbound and the 17:16 on the return go via Salisbury and the corresponding fare for this journey is an Anytime Return, route Salisbury, for 33.40. As our 07:17 outward service travels via Reading at peak time, the ticket required for this journey is an Anytime Return, route Not London, for 143.00. I appreciate that there is a marked difference in the two fares but the information you obtained from the Internet was correct.

Thank you again for your email and for the opportunity to explain.

Yours sincerely

Xxxxx Xxxxx
Customer Services Advisor

I did indeed find an alternative source - I researched further online and found that I could travel on the 07:17, route via Chippenham, Bath, Southampton, Brockenhurst and arrive 30 minutes earlier.   No through ticket that way, but by buying a ticket to Bath then a ticket to Lymington, it was even cheaper than 33.40.

I'm delighted to read that the 143.00 fare is correct as far as FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are concerned.  Why do they fail to offer a quicker route for this trains that's over 100 pounds cheaper?

[eightf48544]

Aren't FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in breach of their franchise agreement to offer the cheapest fare for any journey?

By not offering you the via Bath fare either in their late letter or via the website then they are surely in breach.

You should report it to Passenger Focus, ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) and D(a)FT.

It's yet another example of the mess rail fares have become.

Who will severe the Gordian knot that we've tied?

[grahame]

Aren't FGW^▸ (First Great Western) in breach of their franchise agreement to offer the cheapest fare for any journey?

I think they would argue not, because I did a "split" via Bath - that's not a through fare.  If they breached their agreement with this one, then you do so every time they fail to offer a split at Didcot on Chippenham to London where the customer says that (s)he will be using trains which happen to stop at Didcot.

[eightf48544]

If the cheapest fare for the whole journey involves, because of the mess the fare system is in, buying two tickets then that's still the cheapest fare  for that journey at that time of day.

Thus Chippenham should aways sell two tickets (split Didcot) if the next train stps at Didcot. 

[smokey]

If the cheapest fare for the whole journey involves, because of the mess the fare system is in, buying two tickets then that's still the cheapest fare  for that journey at that time of day.

Thus Chippenham should aways sell two tickets (split Didcot) if the next train stps at Didcot. 

[/b]

Tickets should be sold at the Cheapest rate for the journey asked for. Split Tickets at Didcot is NOT the Journey asked for.

Yes Big savings can be made by splitting tickets but that's for the Customer to do a little homework.
Booking Offices have to supply the tickets Asked for.
Split tickets have a second effect they Increase Passenger journeys numbers, foot fall numbers at stations.

[grahame]

Tickets should be sold at the Cheapest rate for the journey asked for. Split Tickets at Didcot is NOT the Journey asked for.

It depends on how you ask.  I know that I have stated the train I'll be travelling on and asked for the lowest price ticket or tickets to get to Chippenham (from Paddington), and I have been offered just one ticket.   I then asked and what would it cost if I asked for a ticket to Didcot and one from there to Chippenham ... at which point the guy condescended to sell me what I had asked for in the first place, which was the lowest cost way to get to Chippenham on that train (I *think* - perhaps a second split might have made it even cheaper?).

However - that's an old argument we've had before.

I consider it to be a lie - sorry - to say that the "Cheapest Single" that's available is 71.50 ... with an 07:17 departure and a 11:37 arrival, when I can leave at 07:17, get there at 11:07, and pay just 28 pounds.   To add insult to injury, the web page tells me that "results are based on fastest available trains" ...

P.S.  Just out of curiousity ... I've just clicked on the link that says "click here to check if slower routes with cheaper tickets are available" and managed to find a 33.40 return fare on the 07:17 ... arriving at 11:07.  Err - that's a FASTER journey not a slower one. Does the "fastest available trains" mean they've routed me on 125s and Voyagers in preference to 158s?

[grahame]

I thought long and hard and decided to follow up further ... as I feel I can't trust the web site to offer the fastest journey, nor to offer the lowest cost option.  If it gets this one wrong, what else does it get wrong. A hundred pounds is one heck of an overcharge! Also - I expect I'll be in Lymington again.

Thank you for your answer - now of academic interest, as my journey to Lymington happened several weeks ago - although it's a journey I make from time to time so it may arise again.

Further research gave me an 07:17 departure from Melksham, arriving at Lymington at 11:07, with a return fare of around 33 pounds (I clicked on "cheaper fares, slower journeys")

You tell me that 134 pounds was the correct fare if routed via Reading, with an 11:37 arrival - but why was I offered this in the first place and not the faster and 100 pound cheaper ticket which I had to follow a number of further links to find?

I received the following reply:

Thank you for contacting First Great Western. We confirm receipt of your e-mail and aim to forward a full response within 5 working days. If you have a more urgent issue that needs resolving please telephone on 08457 000125 where we will try to give a faster resolution.

That was at 14:23 last Thursday,  and so I'm looking forward to getting an answer in the next couple of hours 

[grahame]

That was at 14:23 last Thursday,  and so I'm looking forward to getting an answer in the next couple of hours 

Still waiting ... 

[smokey]

That was at 14:23 last Thursday,  and so I'm looking forward to getting an answer in the next couple of hours 

Still waiting ... 

I hope you have food and water available, Me thinks You will Never get a reply, unless you fire off a second E-mail.

Your 5 day reply is in Hyper-Space

[grahame]

That was at 14:23 last Thursday,  and so I'm looking forward to getting an answer in the next couple of hours 

Still waiting ... 

I hope you have food and water available, Me thinks You will Never get a reply, unless you fire off a second E-mail.

Your 5 day reply is in Hyper-Space

Ye of little faith ... just received:

Dear Mr Ellis

Thank you for your further email of 7 August 2010, and for providing the additional details. Due to an increase in the volume of correspondence recently received in to our Customer Service office, we have been unable to respond with our usual efficiency. I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience that this may have caused to you.

I was very concerned to learn how unhappy you were with the details offered on-line for your journey between Melksham and Lymington Town, and which originally prompted you to contact us.

Our website does offer the full range of fares for the journey specified. However, this is reliant on the details the passenger enters in the first instance. For example: if the passenger tells the website that they are travelling at peak time, or on a more expensive route, then the site will offer the corresponding fares that are valid for that journey.

I have externally accessed our website as would any rail passenger, and put in your journey details. True - when you select the 07:17 service it does only show the more expensive fares as a first option, but these are relevant to the journey shown.

If you were to select an 'earlier' or 'later' train - as shown via a quick click on the links shown on the top of the page - then our website does show the cheaper fares for the different journeys. It therefore remains the passenger's responsibility to investigate the various journey possibilities and fares being offered.

I know you would much prefer that our website offer alternative recommendations or suggestions. However, our website is an automated sales facility and is limited to the information that passenger enters in the first instance. I am sure you can appreciate that our website cannot offer intuitive recommendations as would a Booking Office Clerk or a Telesales Advisor. If a passenger is seeking a more personal touch with their booking it is recommended that they book over the counter at a station or over the phone with our Telesales department (08457 000 125).

Ultimately, the faster route and cheaper fare were available on our website - but I am genuinely sorry that this information wasn't offered on an impromptu basis. I'm happy to log your concerns for the attention of our E-Marketing Manager, who's responsible for all web-related operations. Specifically, I'll log your case in direct support of offering some sort of alternative recommendation function to the site.

Thank you once again for bringing your comments and concerns to our attention. We welcome feedback from customers, which highlights areas in which we can improve any aspect of our service.

Yours sincerely

Xxxxxxx Xxxxx
Customer Services Team Manager

Hmmm ... I'm not sure how this answers why I was offered a 71.50 fare and 260 minute journey, claiming to be "based on the fastest available trains" on the 07:17 when a 28.50 fare with a 230 minute journey time was available on the same departure.

[JayMac]

Well, it appears that if you want your tickets on the day of travel then off you go to Melksham booking office! 

I have to say this is a really poor response to the issue raised and I would seriously consider taking it further up the chain of command at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and maybe get Passenger Focus involved.