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Author Topic: Crossrail  (Read 2703 times)
martyjon
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« on: October 05, 2007, 10:03:47 am »

Just announced on BBC Radio4 10:00 news summary, PM Gordon Brown has given the go ahead for CrossRail.
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martyjon
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« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2007, 08:10:35 pm »

20:00 05/10/2007:

Listening to the BBC Radio4 news summary moments ogo it was stated that CrossRail will cost ^16 billion, commence in 2010, and take 7 years to complete. If my memory serves me correctly, thats more than the cost of the Channel Tunnel.

Is it worth it.

I now go and look out my old dads ARP tin hat and don it in anticipation of all those 'missiles' which will not doubt be aimed at me now following that comment.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2007, 08:12:50 pm by martyjon » Logged
vacman
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« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2007, 08:40:29 pm »

I agree, total waste of money, would be better spent on reopening Tavistock and Portishead!!!!!!!!!!
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2007, 07:42:15 am »

I make that about 2000 pounds per Londoner.    But of course it will benefit far more that Londoners - it will benefit business and tourists too.

For 3 pounds per resident of Swindon / Salisbury / Chippenham / Trowbridge / Melksham, an appropriate TransWilts train service could be run across the county for the rest of the FGW franchise. But of course it would benefit far more than Wiltshire residents - it would benefit businesses and tourists and long distance passengers on their way through too.
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martyjon
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« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2007, 12:21:33 pm »

With FGW website listing 12 Service Incidents when I looked earlier and all of which were due to ;-

This is due to train crew having been unavailable earlier.

lets hope DaFT dont confirm what a 'useful as a new born baby is' bunch they are by awarding the franchise for CROSSRAIL to FIRST GROUP.

Please God, 'I'll go to church tomorrow'.
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grahame
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« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2007, 01:05:02 pm »

lets hope DaFT dont confirm what a 'useful as a new born baby is' bunch they are by awarding the franchise for CROSSRAIL to FIRST GROUP.

Hey - criticism where it's due for sure, but let's keep it clear of name-calling, should we?  It's far more effective for us to make good cases than to go down the line of tossing insults around; I would very much like to have these people listen to our views when they come to make decisions  Wink
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Timmer
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2007, 01:31:22 pm »

20:00 05/10/2007:

Listening to the BBC Radio4 news summary moments ogo it was stated that CrossRail will cost ^16 billion, commence in 2010, and take 7 years to complete. If my memory serves me correctly, thats more than the cost of the Channel Tunnel.

Is it worth it.

I now go and look out my old dads ARP tin hat and don it in anticipation of all those 'missiles' which will not doubt be aimed at me now following that comment.
You are correct, channel tunnel cost around ^10 billion. Though I support it, I wont be send a missile your way as I feel that the money could do so much more good being spent on rail projects around the country.
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Timmer
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« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2007, 01:33:21 pm »

lets hope DaFT dont confirm what a 'useful as a new born baby is' bunch they are by awarding the franchise for CROSSRAIL to FIRST GROUP.

Hey - criticism where it's due for sure, but let's keep it clear of name-calling, should we?  It's far more effective for us to make good cases than to go down the line of tossing insults around; I would very much like to have these people listen to our views when they come to make decisions  Wink
No worries on this one as there is no way the government would let certain unamed companies to get hold of their pet project that the government would want to take all the credit for which means it needs to work.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 01:57:54 pm by Timmer » Logged
martyjon
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« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2007, 07:55:58 pm »

Come, come. I thought this was a forum where we could all air our views, warts and all.

... , I would very much like to have these people listen to our views when they come to make decisions.

Many posts made on this forum have expressed disappointment of how the Tran Wilts Line has been treated by both the December 2006 TT change and the pending 2007 December TT. If the responsible Govenrment department had any 'bottle' at all they would have issued an amendment to the Service Level Commitment ordering the TOC to operate the two services in the up and down directions at a more suitable time for the potential traveller, not leave it to the TOC to cover the services in 'unit idle time'. If the same department had any interest in providing services at times more suited to the paseengers who would use the service they would have asked questions of potential passengers such as, "which end of the section Trowbridge - Chippenham do you want an arrival of the service between 08:00 and 08:30 and likewise departure between 17:00 and 17:30."

Comment has also been made of the availabilty or lack if it of saver fares to/from Melksham. Again if the said Goverment Department had sufficient bottle or in this case would it be The Office of the Rail Regulator, they would issue an order to compel the TOC to allow the use of through saver tickets to / from Melksham on peak hour services as there are no other services. If the TOC objected then it would be up to the TOC to seek a derogation of the SLC to plan and operate suitable services on which savers would be valid.

Some of my comments may seem acidic at times but they do make
people sit up and take note. I take the view that if my comments do, on ocassionls, provoke responses such as "cool it, cool it", then I know I am, "hitting the nail on the head" and can respond with the likes of "the truth hurts" or "If the cap fits wear it".

There is a saying which I very often use when I am told it cant be done, I say, "the impossible takes time, miracles take a little longer".

No doubt people in high places have taken on board criticisms, listened to comments and taken away suggestions in the period since the decimation of the Tranz Wilts Lines services but what HAVE they done apart from give "lip service". At times I have dectected a feeling of "why do I bother" and "am I bashing my head against a brick wall" from the tone of the postings of the main campaigner for a better service on the Trans Wilts Line through Melksham.

Am I right Huh
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grahame
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« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2007, 08:53:07 pm »

Come, come. I thought this was a forum where we could all air our views, warts and all.

[snip]

At times I have dectected a feeling of "why do I bother" and "am I bashing my head against a brick wall" from the tone of the postings of the main campaigner for a better service on the Trans Wilts Line through Melksham.

Am I right Huh

OK; the question has been asked whether or not the Melksham campaign feels it's bashing its head against a brick wall.  And that in the light of what were my "please watch the boundaries" post - which was put up there to draw a line before it got too personal, OK?

Quote
Am I right?

No - You're wrong ;-)

The objectives of the campaign based in Melksham, but covering the whole TransWilts service were:

a) To put the line on the map

b) To get the case for a service looked at properly, with serious consideration of what an appropriate level of service would be

and

c) If that appropriate level of service turned out to be higher than that being operated, and / or at different times, to campaign to regain and retain that service.

There is, of course, a degree of overlap; it's not "a" then "b" then "c" necessarily.  But (a) has to a very great extend been achieved. (b) has very seriously been worked on, and we have (but there have been so many false dawns that I can't be sure) started to see some movement towards (c). 

Of course, there have been times - numerous times - when we feel we've been slapped in the face.  A consultation input that's sought out which results in the TOC doing the exact OPPOSITE of what we asked for.  And timings worked out and a heck of a lot of work done - by the three main players (DfT FGW and WCC) to find that, for some reason, the huge improvement that was drafted has come to nowt and that, low and behold, the 06:19 moves even earlier and the 18:42 moves even later.  Other situation such as the fares that you mention too. And at such times, there is a natural question "is it worth it".

MartyJon, I wish you could have walked around Melksham with me when I was in fancy dress "selling" a Cancer charity raiser ... and it wasn't Cancer but the train that everyone wanted to talk to me about.  Or have been with us a "Party in the Park" where we were putting a case that was such a "no brainer" that it really wasn't like a normal stand - EVERYONE was on side.  Or travelled on the trains with me and the others, with the passengers and crew so very much in support of what we're about.  And I can name other instances too - many of them, but 3 is enough - each confirming that yes, what we're doing is worth it.

So why do I just blow a slight wind of caution?   Because I've learned that the best way to move forward is through an open door, and the best way to get an open door is to find one that's not locked, and push it gently open ... taking great care in the process that the doorkeeper on duty is happy with it being opened, and that he/she is happy with you coming through.   Hmm.  A bit abstract - let me put that in other terms.

We want a good train service here. And, let's face it, FGW are well placed to provide it.  The DfT are well placed to authorise it or at least not throw obstackles in its way, so let's take advantage of that to our mutual benefit.  Look at what motivates a company - the prospect of good press for sure, and also the prospect of a good income.  Oh - and the prospect of something that's not going to be a nightmare to run with all sorts of awkard people around.

It suits us for FGW to get a reasonable income from the line; pence per mile is very low at the moment, I've no problem with it going up somewhat, but NOT crazily.  We're quite happy with a few extra minutes on the journey - heck 28 minutes of 25 - what does it matter? And if that means that they can use older and (presumably) cheaper stock to lease, good for them. 

Indeed, we'll go further - we've been gathering all sorts of traffic flow and specific data toghther to help quantify local specifics - some are in our favour and others come out against. Basically, we've got a situation where near as damn it the door is now open is such away that we're all - I think - pulling in more or less the same direction.

No, sir, you do NOT see me bashing my head against a brick wall. And actually I'me very grateful for the opportunity to explain all this lot!
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simonw
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2007, 09:01:11 pm »

Hi

One of the problems with Rail in this country is the very close link between politics and rail. I was never a great fan of original the franchise system, but the use of an independent regulator did ensure some more sensible, customer focused decisions. I have a deep distrust of government sponsored grandiose schemes such as this, especially when announced in the run up to a phoney election (now cancelled).

Does London need an express route from Berkshire to Essex? Surely an improvement to services

- from Paddington to Heathrow, Maidenhead and Reading (helps lot more people)
- from Liverpool Street to Essex (helps lot more people)
- link major underground stations by a frequent dedicated line.

One of the problems of the Tube map is that we think there are hundreds of rail tunnels under London. There arn't. The capacity of the underground is in part determined by track and junction congestion. Crossrail, by adding a single dedicated track will not solve London's transport problems, just make a few journeys a lot quicker in a very expensive way. 

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martyjon
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2007, 09:35:35 pm »

No doubt people in high places have taken on board criticisms, listened to comments and taken away suggestions in the period since the decimation of the Tranz Wilts Lines services but what HAVE they done apart from give "lip service". At times I have dectected a feeling of "why do I bother" and "am I bashing my head against a brick wall" from the tone of the postings of the main campaigner for a better service on the Trans Wilts Line through Melksham.

Am I right Huh

I WAS right.

Grahame you quoted ;-

A consultation input that's sought out which results in the TOC doing the exact OPPOSITE of what we asked for. - my "lip service"
 
when we feel we've been slapped in the face. - synonymous to "bashing my head against a brick wall", amend to "our heads"
 
Other situation such as the fares that you mention too. And at such times, there is a natural question "is it worth it". - complimentary to
"why do I bother"

Yes I WAS right but not 100% correct, just 99%.

Why, in a previous post I mentioned that you are forever the optimist, I can see that you / the Melksham campaign are ones that are positive looking and take the view that all of you are ot the "if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try and try again" brigade. That was the final 1%.

This has digressed somewhat from the subject of the thread Crossrail so I think its time we said enough said and move on and wish the Melksham campaign good luck in the campaign.

Regards.
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