Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 05:15 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
* Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
07:00 Bedwyn to Newbury
07:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:13 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:46 Bedwyn to Newbury
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:12 Reading to Bedwyn
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:00 Bedwyn to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 05:32:43 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[92] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[91] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[81] Return of the BRUTE?
[69] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[56] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
[50] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: The Didcot Dance - still happening!  (Read 23406 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« on: August 22, 2010, 09:10:34 »

1.  The train to Oxford and beyond sits quietly awaiting further passengers at Didcot Parkway



2. The HST (High Speed Train) from Bristol (conveying, in this instance a double load because the previous one had been cancelled) approaches from the Swindon direction ... and can it be that the Oxford train is moving?



3.  Yes it can ... as the Bristol and Bath rolls in on one side of the platform, the Oxford train's out of the station and conveying a lot of empty seats (and some full ones too) up to Radley and Oxford



Picture taken at about half past ten yesterday morning.

Personal interest statement - I have to travel up to Oxford from time to time, and it's utterly frustrating to be standing at the door, waiting to get out as we pull into Didcot to see the onward train pulling out of the station.  Whether this particular one's an official connection or not I don't know - but whether or not it is, the psychological effect on passengers of this sort of thing can't be positive.

The last few years has done wonders for some services - such as Oxford to Bicester.  But other significant passenger flows - such as Swindon to Oxford and West Wiltshire to Swindon - have been treated (and continue to be treated) with what appears to be a "don't really care / profit first, travelling customers second" attitude.   

I don't really mind who provides a good, practical service at a sensible price.  As the incumbent in the area, there's logic to the First group, in the form of First Great Western, sorting out the services - avoiding the "Didcot Dance" and running a 153 up and down to the TransWilts so that there are realist journey opportunities that we all know would be used.   But then ... there's also logic in running a couple of 158 / 159 units from Stagecoach's Salisbury depot to Oxford every couple of hours.   And the proposals from the Go! Co-operative are very carefully thought out, with - as far as I can tell - potential problems having been considered and resolved as far as practical ahead of time. 

The First franchise is halfway through ... and there are (natural) indicators that the company is becoming more concerned at maximising the gap between revenue and expenditure, rather than spending money on developing revenue flows which will help more in the next franchise term, or giving equipment more that shorter term treatments.  "Enough for next 5 years" rather than "what's good for the next 15".  That's probably why the annual price tag for (for example) a proper TransWilts service has risen 12 fold in 5 years, as they want to get back any expenditure even before the service has built up to a good usage level - doesn't say much about their confidence in winning the franchise renewal to me!

Edit to add conclusion
« Last Edit: August 22, 2010, 09:35:07 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2010, 12:02:38 »

I know what you mean, Graham - and I've commented on it before.

Trouble is, the current timetable doesn't connect well with services from Bristol at all.  On weekdays and Saturday's the Oxford's usually depart Didcot at xx:25 and xx:55 and the Bristol's usually arrive at xx:28, though having left Swindon at xx:10 and with a running time of 15 minutes then often arrive (as your pictures suggest) as the Oxford train is pulling out of the platform.  It is swings-and-roundabouts though as the Swansea/Cardiff's arrive Didcot at xx:15 and xx:46 so providing an excellent connection.

So, quite often they are not a booked connection, but as you say, the impression is dreadful when you see an Oxford train pulling out and know you have a 30-minute wait for the next one.  Some drivers will wait for a few seconds in other cases (say the xx:15 rolls in 10 minutes late and people are coming across for the xx:25), but given that Didcot is self-dispatch for Turbo trains they're hesitant to wait for too long unless the platform staff tell them too, or they find a delay explanation form waiting for them when they get to Oxford.
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
willc
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2330


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2010, 14:56:09 »

Especially when the structure of the timetable means that a fast from Paddington to Oxford or the Cotswold Line is breathing down the neck of the stopper on the approach to Oxford, so the service from Didcot isn't the only thing that is delayed, as the fast cannot reach the platform until the Turbo has been walked through by a member of the Oxford dispatch staff to check it is empty and then sent on its way into the sidings.

The situation at Didcot is not ideal and it seems odd that South Wales gets a better connection than Bristol but this state of affairs will probably continue for some time until Reading rebuilding and Crossrail, allows major timetable restructuring.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2010, 23:53:27 »

It's an area of the timetable which doesn't particularly sit well at the moment.  Local trains sitting at Didcot for between 5 and 10 minutes all the while whilst XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services overtake them via the avoider, before departing towards Oxford just before a train from Bristol arrives.  Heading north from Didcot isn't great as a result as the stopper arrives at Oxford just after the XC service has departed to Manchester or Newcastle leaving a 25 minute wait for the next service. 

Perhaps all of the xx:50 trains from Paddington to Oxford should stop at Didcot Parkway (around the xx:38 mark) as they offer better connections from the Bristol trains and also at Oxford for passengers heading north?  At the moment the only ones that do are the 10:50, 12:50 and 14:50, as in the other hours the xx:48's to Cheltenham stop at Didcot - not much use for passengers from Didcot towards Oxford though!
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2754



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2010, 01:32:26 »

exmouth connections at st david's are like it
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2010, 08:31:54 »

Perhaps all of the xx:50 trains from Paddington to Oxford should stop at Didcot Parkway (around the xx:38 mark) as they offer better connections from the Bristol trains and also at Oxford for passengers heading north?  At the moment the only ones that do are the 10:50, 12:50 and 14:50, as in the other hours the xx:48's to Cheltenham stop at Didcot - not much use for passengers from Didcot towards Oxford though!

Now there is a good idea ... and indeed it would make the service more "Clockface" too - passengers having an hourly service with good connections at Didcot from Chippenham / Bath / Bristol.

P.S. ... remind me why "The Cheltenham" doesn't run clockface / hourly during the day ...  Wink ... wouldn't that boost traffic for the Stroud Valley, and free up a couple of units which currently have quite low utilisation for higher utilisation jobs elsewhere.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
fatcontroller
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 117


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2010, 11:15:45 »

Now there is a good idea ... and indeed it would make the service more "Clockface" too - passengers having an hourly service with good connections at Didcot from Chippenham / Bath / Bristol.

P.S. ... remind me why "The Cheltenham" doesn't run clockface / hourly during the day ...  Wink ... wouldn't that boost traffic for the Stroud Valley, and free up a couple of units which currently have quite low utilisation for higher utilisation jobs elsewhere.

Where do you think the passengers for the poorly utilised units come from?
They connect out of South Wales services.

FGW (First Great Western) would only then get slated for running two HST (High Speed Train)'s 3-minutes behind each other all the way to Swindon, when, "They could find a unit to run up and down the Branch connecting with South Wales services at Swindon, thus saving themselves an HST or two!"

Note from moderator: Edited to tidy up quote. bignosemac
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 13:12:02 by bignosemac » Logged

former FGW (First Great Western) Staff now working for the People's republic of ScotRail
Anything I post is my own personal view and not that of FGW, FirstGroup, ScotRail or Transport Scotland.
Anything official from these sources will be marked as such.
Super Guard
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1308


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 13:56:11 »

exmouth connections at st david's are like it

What a load of tosh, fgw services up from Plymouth connect with :18ish past the hours to Exmouth giving about 15mins wait, and the only down-London service that just misses an Exmouth connection is the 16:22PNZ service... All the others have about 10minutes to wait.

As has been discussed before, it just isn't possible to mess around with the Exmouth timetable with the single lines, and clashes with mainline services.
Logged

Any opinions made on this forum are purely personal and my own.  I am in no way speaking for, or offering the views of First Great Western or First Group.

If my employer feels I have broken any aspect of the Social Media Policy, please PM me immediately, so I can rectify without delay.
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2010, 14:26:56 »

Cut relex109 a bit of slack, DG.

Not a load of tosh at all. FGW (First Great Western) aren't the only show in town at Exeter St Davids. Through most of the day CrossCountry in either direction just miss viable or official connections for Exmouth, leaving a near 1/2 hour wait.

 

« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 16:29:08 by bignosemac » Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Super Guard
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1308


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2010, 15:19:28 »

OK, my apologies, a bit of a poor choice of words.

I was focussing on FGW (First Great Western) services as the original topic was regarding the poor timetabling of FGW services in the Didcot area.

I don't know how much change XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) could implement in the timetable (my general opinion is they don't care, but my dealings with them are pretty poor so my opinion of them is on the same level), however with a 6 minute minimum connection time at EXD» (Exeter St Davids - next trains), it would take a good 10 minute change to make better connections viable with XC services.
Logged

Any opinions made on this forum are purely personal and my own.  I am in no way speaking for, or offering the views of First Great Western or First Group.

If my employer feels I have broken any aspect of the Social Media Policy, please PM me immediately, so I can rectify without delay.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2010, 21:34:14 »

FGW (First Great Western) would only then get slated for running two HST (High Speed Train)'s 3-minutes behind each other all the way to Swindon ...

Indeed ... but are you suggesting they don't / shouldn't get slated for doing this once every 2 hours anyway?   It could be argued that the current situation on that is the worst of both world.   It's not an hourly, clockface, through service.  It duplicates a train at a three minute headway all the way to Swindon every 2 hours.   It leaves a 15x twiddling its thumbs wheels at Swindon for an hour ...

Oh - I can find a good alternative.

Every 2 hours - Cheltenham - Gloucester - Stroud - Swindon - Didcot - Reading - London
Every 2 hours - Cheltenham - Gloucester - Stroud - Swindon - all stations to Westbury and Salisbury
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2010, 21:59:10 »

Interesting thoughts on service pattern on Golden Valley.

It's very simailar to DBs» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) mix of IC (Inter City)/ICE and RE (Religious Education) trains. IC/ICE every 2 hours RE alternate 2 hours.  The RE stopping more often. Givng an hourly service overall.
Logged
Btline
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4782



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2010, 22:07:00 »

If a 15X unit does wait at Swindon for an hour, it is scandalous that it does't run to at least Westbury and back!
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2010, 23:01:38 »

If a 15X unit does wait at Swindon for an hour, it is scandalous that it does't run to at least Westbury and back!

Swindon sits:

10:43 to 11:54
12:43 to 13:54
14:43 to 15:54
16:43 to 17:54

But then put in a Westbury run ...

10:45 - 11:00 - 11:10 - 11:20 - 11:25
11:35 - 11:40 - 11:50 - 12:00 - 12:15

... and you'll see you can't get beyond Melksham - you would miss the critical leg to Trowbridge that's vital to the economic case.

Now ... if you were to retime the northbound Stroud Valley service to the opposite half hour, that would give you a 12:24 on to Cheltenham, arriving there at 13:33 and heading south again on its original timing at 13:40.   The :48 off Paddington for Cheltenham trains would become a :18 (not sure how that would go down!) and you might have single line issues up the Stroud Valley.

If you "swap over" the Swindon unit with something on layover at Westbury, you'll need something that's available for the right 50 minutes from Westbury (passing each other at Chippenham), with enough slack to allow the incoming train ex Swindon to have a short break before its next duty.   That's where this proposal fails in at least one of the four scenarios - the time that the TOC (Train Operating Company) has specified must be allowed for robustness on a train that's going to weave its way back through the Bristol area is insufficient.   I would be tempted to say "turn at Trowbridge then", but it turns out that's not a well received suggested either, as the train will have to stop there blocking the lines for too long, and will break the every 30 minute pattern from Westbury to Bristol.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
willc
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2330


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 00:54:02 »

Quote
Quote from: IndustryInsider on August 22, 2010, 11:53:27 PM
Perhaps all of the xx:50 trains from Paddington to Oxford should stop at Didcot Parkway (around the xx:38 mark) as they offer better connections from the Bristol trains and also at Oxford for passengers heading north?  At the moment the only ones that do are the 10:50, 12:50 and 14:50, as in the other hours the xx:48's to Cheltenham stop at Didcot - not much use for passengers from Didcot towards Oxford though!

Now there is a good idea ... and indeed it would make the service more "Clockface" too - passengers having an hourly service with good connections at Didcot from Chippenham / Bath / Bristol.

And put another five minutes into Oxford/Cotswold not very 'fast' already services? No thanks. Never mind what it would do to pathing on the Cotswold Line. And where would you fit Didcot passengers on the 15.51 anyway?
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page