re: Chiltern railways to Didcot parkway friday 5th november

[whole diary]

[anthony215]

Not sure if this is in the right thread but i couldn't really find another topic for this.

I read on UK^▸ (United Kingdom) railforums and have found the following link:

http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/content/friday-5-november-important-travel-news

Have chiltern  run to  or via Didcot  Parkway before?

[willc]

Yes. They used to couple up their trains to Thames Trains Turbos to and from Paddington during engineering work but the advent of Adelantes and HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) on the Oxford fasts put paid to that.

[IndustryInsider]

Expect the busier trains between Didcot and London to be even worse than normal - I gather a few additional stops at Didcot might be in the offing?

The trains will not be calling at Oxford I understand, so will be non-stop from Banbury to Didcot Parkway.  Chiltern drivers have, for the past few weeks, been learning the route.

Interesting that passengers from Bicester North to London are being told to get a bus to Aylesbury VP, and no mention of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service to Oxford for onward connections is mentioned as another alternative.  That's certainly the way I'd be going if there was a train to suit - I wonder how many others will work it out?

A three-day possession required to allow the works to re-instate the through line at Princes Risborough to take place presumably?

[eightf48544]

Direct Gov Journey planner gives 46 minutes direct bus between Bicester North and Aylesbury Vale. 28 minutes by car.

[IndustryInsider]

Yeah, so 45 mins by Bus (TBC), connection time and then about 68 minutes from there.  Compared with 25 mins to Oxford, connection time and just under an hour to Paddington with no buses.  The first train of the day at 06:23 via Oxford would get people to Paddington for 07:59.  At least Bicester Town's new car park might be utilised a little more than usual!

Just spotted on one of the Chiltern pages that it is indeed to install the through line at Princes Risborough.

[Electric train]

Link below to Geoff Plumb's site HST^▸ (High Speed Train) at Princes Risborough

http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/p67685920.html

[SDS]

Passengers are advsied to travel on the bus replacement services

Chiltern seems to have created a new spelling for advised, or more likely the person was in a rush to type the amendment out.

[willc]

Expect the busier trains between Didcot and London to be even worse than normal - I gather a few additional stops at Didcot might be in the offing?

The trains will not be calling at Oxford I understand, so will be non-stop from Banbury to Didcot Parkway.  Chiltern drivers have, for the past few weeks, been learning the route.

Interesting that passengers from Bicester North to London are being told to get a bus to Aylesbury VP, and no mention of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service to Oxford for onward connections is mentioned as another alternative.  That's certainly the way I'd be going if there was a train to suit - I wonder how many others will work it out?

But the Bicester-Oxford service isn't really a lot of use if you're commuting to London, other than the 06.23, though off-peak it looks more attractive. And isn't Islip's platform two-car only anyway, which would mean FGW can't add extra seats by using a three-car 165? It would be a bit of a squeeze on the 07.57 from Bicester if lots of Chiltern refugees turned up...

The 'go to Aylesbury' advice is also consistent with the alternative routing used for Bicester and Haddenham & Thame during most of the weekend closures recently.

Not that it's easy to predict what people will do anyway.  While Banbury passengers will all have to go via Didcot, I suspect the Warwickshire contingent will be driving over to Birmingham International, Coventry or Rugby (not far short of 750 parking spaces there and the newish relief road makes access to the station from the west much easier) for the day, even if they do have to shell out for a ticket.

[IndustryInsider]

But the Bicester-Oxford service isn't really a lot of use if you're commuting to London, other than the 06.23, though off-peak it looks more attractive. And isn't Islip's platform two-car only anyway, which would mean FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can't add extra seats by using a three-car 165? It would be a bit of a squeeze on the 07.57 from Bicester if lots of Chiltern refugees turned up...

Well, we'll have to wait and see how an 06:23 departure with an 07:59 arrival compares with the advertised bus journey then.  I can't see it being any slower, and no horrible bus.  That train usually runs with about 15-20 people on board, so plenty of room for another 150 or so - even if some people do have to stand for 25 minutes.  I can't see any more space than that needed, as I'm sure a few of the regulars will take the day off, and others of course will choose the advertised route, or just drive to Aylesbury Vale Parkway.  My point is that a perfectly reasonable, and in many ways better, alternative is being ignored.

The 07:57 would, as you say, be a bit of a squeeze, but considering it would provide a post commuter arrival time at Paddington it would no doubt not draw so many of the crowds and could easily handle another 50 or so passengers on a typical morning.

Off peak services generally connect well offering a 90-minute journey time on most trains - all of which have plenty of capacity - and the returning commuter has a choice from Paddington of either the 18:22 arriving at 19:55, or the 19:50 arriving at 21:25 - again, I can't see a Marylebone-Aylesbury-Bicester route getting close to those times.

You could of course be blissfully unaware of any changes to the normal timetable, as all the journey planners are still showing the normal timetable! 

[willc]

I'm not saying no-one will use the 06.23, though all the information given by Chiltern suggests that they and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't want people to use the Bicester Town route (and they certainly haven't suggested the possibility during recent weekend blockades) - note the wording used in the entry for Banbury on the Chiltern website - "Valid Chiltern Railways tickets will be accepted on First Great Western services in both directions between Banbury, Didcot Parkway and London Paddington." There is nothing similar under Bicester, which suggests FGW will not be taking Chiltern tickets on the branch that day

And the 06.23 is the only practical commuter service into London via Oxford - compared with nine trains from Bicester North after 6.15am that give a Marylebone arrival before 9am on a normal weekday. It's an easy enough drive to Aylesbury Parkway, which is just off the A41 north of the town, so I'm sure most will just point their cars in that direction for the day, rather than Bicester North.

[IndustryInsider]

Regarding ticket validity, no they don't, which is a shame in my point of view.  Not everyone has a car to point somewhere else.  Though, does anyone know if a Bicester North to London Terminals season ticket, route 'Any Permitted' (though only routing option available on seasons I think?), is valid from Bicester Town via Oxford?

[JayMac]

Regarding ticket validity, no they don't, which is a shame in my point of view.  Not everyone has a car to point somewhere else.  Though, does anyone know if a Bicester North to London Terminals season ticket, route 'Any Permitted' (though only routing option available on seasons I think?), is valid from Bicester Town via Oxford?

Bicester North and Bicester Town share exactly the same routeing points in the National Rail Routeing Guide. However, I fear that the 'fares rule' comes into play for your particular query.... the 'fares rule' is a part of the NRRG that I've yet to get my head around.

[ChrisB]

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), no, that season is not valid via Oxford.

However, once the TWOrder is complete and Chiltern complete the Oxford - MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone)) route, 'Bicester Stations' will have to be the fare point, to allow Bicester passengers to journey from either station in either direction.

Passengers I've spoken to are mainly driving to Aylesbury / AVale Parkway. AS are Banbury commuters which has now opened eyes at Chiltern who are worrying about capacities in those car parks....!

Friday evening out of Padd to Didcot is going to be no fun with Chiltern's commuters from Banbury northwards trying to travel that route....which is why people are thinking of Aylesbury.

Chiltern need to get this right because there's another closure just before the full new TT comes in in May.....

....From April 22 to May 7 inclusive!

I've broached the subject of season ticket compensation for this long closure. It is unacceptable to expect commuters paying good money to have to put up with two weeks of journeys extended by a minimum of 50 minutes *each way*.

[willc]

Not everyone has a car to point somewhere else.

But I think the ever-expanding Bicester North car park is a clue as to how many using the station do get there every morning. And I expect a good few of those who do walk can probably cadge a lift over to Bucks with someone they know who drives.

While it would be nice for Chiltern's Banbury and Bicester passengers to have free rein to use anything running between there, Oxford, Didcot and London, the pitiful capacity of XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise))'s Voyagers makes that a non-starter in terms of Banbury.

On this occasion, I think Chiltern and FGW^▸ (First Great Western), in terms of their ability to assist, really are between a rock and a hard place.

One option for next year might be to attach 168s to FGW's Oxford-London stoppers - at least that way you avoid the issue of the irregular mix of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) and Turbos on the fasts - but obviously there are journey time issues and how many people would just bail out at Oxford and wait for the next FGW fast? It's not as if you could lock them in the whole way to London.

Maybe they need to sit down and discuss a rolling stock loan, so that at least all the Oxford fasts are worked by an HST or a six/seven-car 16X combination, though what you do in the case of the 10.31, I'm not sure, with a full 166 off the Cotswold Line and another 200-plus boarding the set that starts at Oxford.

At least it won't coincide with the May blockade on the Oxfordshire section of the Cotswold Line.

[paul7575]

AIUI^▸ (as I understand it), no, that season is not valid via Oxford.

However, once the TWOrder is complete and Chiltern complete the Oxford - MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone)) route, 'Bicester Stations' will have to be the fare point, to allow Bicester passengers to journey from either station in either direction.

Something will have to change, this fairly crucial negative easement for starters...

Journeys from or via London to Bicester North may not go via Bicester Town and journeys from or via London to Bicester Town may not go via Bicester North. This prohibition applies in both directions.

This is what prevents tickets to either station not being valid on the opposite route.  Can you actually buy tickets to 'Bicester stations'?  I know a few years ago my brother found that from his local station in Kent they sold him a Bicester Town by default, when he wanted Bicester North, and they told him to get lost when he turned up at Marylebone...

Paul S