re: Chiltern railways to Didcot parkway friday 5th november

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Hmm... you may be right blakey, I'd failed to consider King's Sutton. However....

Journey Planners offer up the fares. Yet the Routeing Guide easements list this:

Journeys from stations south of Kings Sutton may not go via Banbury to London nor via Banbury and London to stations beyond London. This prohibition applies in both directions.

So you can buy the ticket, but the Routeing Guide easements appear to disallow the route if you are going all the way to London. Thus according to that easement you can only travel from Oxford as far Wembley Stadium!!

An anomaly in fares and routeing, who'd've thought it?

EDIT: Just to add... WebTIS Journey Planners offer up the fares.

[Chris from Nailsea]

The Mornington Crescent rules apply here, possibly? 

[inspector_blakey]

Only if you're playing a "Dollis Hill Loop", naturally 

[IndustryInsider]

Timetables are finally up on Chiltern's website for the diversions in less than a weeks time - still no timetables for the Bicester North / Haddenham & Thame Parkway passengers though, and the on-line journey planners have yet to be updated.

[ChrisB]

The online journey planners won't get updated owing to the onhoing NRE^‡(resolve) problem with their software. Chiltern's changes this current weekend aren't in there either & it's causing problems because the warnings about this problem STILL aren't big enough to be noticed!

[ChrisB]

Timetable for Friday 5th now finally on Chiltern website. Rubbish really!

First PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) arrival just before 9. Travellers wanting earlier London arrival need to bus from Bicester North to Aylesbury VP.

[IndustryInsider]

First PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) arrival just before 9. Travellers wanting earlier London arrival need to bus from Bicester North to Aylesbury VP.

It is rubbish, although you could always take the normal FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service from Banbury at 06:08 which connects in with the first service from Warwick Parkway and Leamington Spa.  With a further change at Oxford an 07:59 arrival at Paddington is possible - the same time as Bicester passengers leaving from Bicester Town on the 06:23 could achieve.  08:20 and 08:30 arrivals are also possible by catching other FGW or XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services from Banbury.

What is very disappointing, especially given that Chiltern's engineering alterations are usually so well advertised, is the lack of notice of full details of these arrangements (buses from Bicester/Haddenham to Aylesbury VP have still not been uploaded), and the alternatives such as the 06:08 FGW train from Banbury are not included in the timetables that have been uploaded.

[willc]

Nor is it actually clear whether FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will accept Chiltern tickets on services other than those involving a change at Didcot. All the website says is

Valid Chiltern Railways tickets will be accepted on First Great Western services in both directions between Banbury, Didcot Parkway and London Paddington.

 

[ChrisB]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't want Chiltern's passengers at Oxford, hence no mention of this.

Chiltern's tickets aren't being made valid on XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) unless they are valid normally. London tickets from Banbury are anyway - but I think tickets from Leamington Spa northwards are all routed 'High Wycombe'.

[IndustryInsider]

Actually, in case any Banbury commuters are looking on here, if you get the 06:08 from Banbury through to Didcot, chances are you'll make the 06:59 ex Didcot for a 07:44 arrival at Paddington, and if not you'd still be able to catch the train you would have got had you changed at Oxford for an 07:59 arrival.

Similar story with the 06:30 FGW^▸ (First Great Western) service ex-Banbury with a change at Didcot of 7 minutes you'll arrive at 08:14 (or 08:33 if you miss it).  These are in addition to the one Chiltern want to tell you about at 07:07 changing at Didcot for an 08:40 arrival in Paddington - too late for many commuters I expect!

[ChrisB]

Quite. Chiltern really haven't done a very good job on this!

[IndustryInsider]

Replacement bus times from Bicester and Haddenham to Aylesbury are now on line.  As I suspected it's quicker to go from Bicester Town via Oxford to Paddington and involves no buses and a car park space in the new free large car park at Bicester Town - but Chiltern/FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't want to give you that option if you have a season ticket from Bicester North.  Here's some comparisons:

Commuters into London:
Train:  06:23 Bicester Town change at Oxford arrive 07:59
Bus:  06:12 Bicester North change onto train at Aylesbury Vale Parkway arrive 07:58 (10 minutes slower)

Commuters from London:
Train: 18:22 Paddington change at Oxford arrive Bicester Town at 19:55
Bus: 18:18 Marylebone to Aylesbury Vale Parkway changing on to bus arriving at Bicester North 20:04 (13 minutes slower)

Leisure travellers into London:
Train: 10:30 Bicester Town change at Oxford arrive 11:57
Bus: 10:15 Bicester North change onto train at AVP arriving at 12:05 (23 minutes slower)

Leisure travellers from London:
Train: 15:22 Paddington change at Oxford arrive Bicester Town at 16:55
Bus: 15:27 Marylebone change onto bus at AVP arriving at 17:13 (13 minutes slower)

OK, I'll admit I've cherry-picked the best options in the examples above and the bus services run every half-hour during the off-peak and every 15 minutes or so during the peak, but I think it reinforces my point that Chiltern ticket holders should at least be given the option of going via Oxford if Chiltern were serious about providing their customers with the best alternative service it could. 

I would also be wary about relying on the rush-hour traffic in Bicester along with the single carriageway of the A41 to get you reliably from Bicester to Aylesbury Vale Parkway in 30-minutes with only a 7-minute connection onto the train.  The journey is allowed 25-minutes off-peak in a car according to Bing Maps!

[ChrisB]

You can allow 10 of those extra minutes in getting from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) to MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone))....so there's very little to be gained really! With the number of Bicester North seasons, you would swamp the few Bicester Town trains that do run, and one of those is already 75% full in the morning, according to OBRAG.

Your timings to AVP are noted - I shall be out & about there on Friday morning....we'll see!

[IndustryInsider]

Yep - point taken, although not many of these commuters actually work at Marylebone and you could argue Paddington is better served with onward tube connections with Circle/H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) Line services stopping there as well as the Bakerloo Line. 

Also, it remains to be seen how swamped busy Met Line services from Aylesbury to Marylebone get, especially from Amersham onwards, when all the Bicester and Haddenham passengers decend onto their trains at AVP.  There are more trains running from Vale Parkway, but no extra services running from Aylesbury southwards as that is already at full-capacity in the peak.  I don't know whether these trains are being strengthened as a result, but as I've said earlier, 6-cars is the maximum length that can operate due to platform lengths.  Then there's the issue of capacity at Aylesbury Vale Parkway car park that you mentioned - it's fortunate that it's a bit of a white elephant at the moment.

Chris, I'll look forward to hearing about your observations - and I'm sure you won't be backward in coming forward with suggestions for Chiltern should there be problems!

[ChrisB]

Yep - point taken, although not many of these commuters actually work at Marylebone and you could argue Paddington is better served with onward tube connections with Circle/H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) Line services stopping there as well as the Bakerloo Line. 

On the other side of the coin though, are the buses a lot catch in the MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone)) area that can't be got at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), so some will head for MYB anyway to get them.
 

Also, it remains to be seen how swamped busy Met Line services from Aylesbury to Marylebone get, especially from Amersham onwards, when all the Bicester and Haddenham passengers decend onto their trains at AVP.  There are more trains running from Vale Parkway, but no extra services running from Aylesbury southwards as that is already at full-capacity in the peak.  I don't know whether these trains are being strengthened as a result, but as I've said earlier, 6-cars is the maximum length that can operate due to platform lengths.  Then there's the issue of capacity at Aylesbury Vale Parkway car park that you mentioned - it's fortunate that it's a bit of a white elephant at the moment.

Especially as those I've spoken to from Banbury northwards are looking at driving direct to AVP, rather than train / bus via Bicester North! I suspect AVP car park will be full quite early on - don't know what the surrounding road network is like to park on, but the A41 can expect parking on its verges around AVP I reckon.