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Author Topic: Bring back the Buffet on GWR  (Read 684 times)
jamestheredengine
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« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 03:56:03 pm »

7) A buffet is probably going to take up the equivalent of at least 8 seats, so you've got the loss of revenue from them to cover.
I suspect it is more like 16 seats, as the space opposite the buffet needs to be clear too. But I don't think it would result in a loss of revenue, just a bit more overcrowding now and again.  Probably wouldn't be noticed on a 9 car set, but agree having 5 car sets is more difficult to justify.  Does LNER have buffets on its 5 car sets?
If the seats taken out are First Class seats, they can probably be replaced by reducing/eliminating the kitchen at the end.
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stuving
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« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 04:14:15 pm »

Does LNER have buffets on its 5 car sets?

Yes - see seating plans.
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Rob on the hill
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« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2019, 04:31:14 pm »

Does LNER have buffets on its 5 car sets?

Yes - see seating plans.

As well as the buffets, the plans show that LNER have more 1st class seats on both 5 and 9 cars sets than GWR, meaning fewer standard class seats overall.
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grahame
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« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2019, 04:37:02 pm »

... But realistically, however one plays it, four stations with a combined ridership of 131k are not going to be a very good argument for slowing down service to Neath (817k) and Swansea (2.159m) ...

I agree, if you consider the chicken came first.   But it you think the egg came first ....

I would suggest that the ridership at a station is a combination of the population and (potential) travel habits of its catchment, and the provision of reliable services to and from the right place at the right time and at a decent price.    I will take your work for Baglan having a catchment issue.  Llanshamlet should not have that issue from my observations;  Skewen and Briton Ferry, I don't know.   Should we consider Pyle here too?

From Llanshamlet ... I suspect no service will be frequent enough over the short distance to beat the bus into Swansea.  Into Cardiff, you have trains at 06:45, 09:17 and 11:17 ... with three TfW unit trains in addition to the GWR London expresses whistling through in between.  Stops at any one of about 07:15, 07:45, or 08:45 might just fill the gap ... return trains arriving at 16:07,18:00, 19:06 and 19:57 may not be too far off already.

Take a look at how passenger number have jumped at Manea, Parson Street, Melksham, Dronfield, Pinhoe and Copplestone (just to give a few examples) and see what lessons can be learned in forecasting Llanshamlet.  Which, I note, is a long way from our "bring back the buffet car" title.   Pehaps we should hatch an egg and see if we have a cygnet for a separate thread?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 05:21:47 pm by grahame » Logged

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stuving
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« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2019, 04:38:27 pm »

Does LNER have buffets on its 5 car sets?

Yes - see seating plans.

As well as the buffets, the plans show that LNER have more 1st class seats on both 5 and 9 cars sets than GWR, meaning fewer standard class seats overall.

Yes, those are the original default layouts specified for both IEP orders. GWR's ones were built with reduced 1st class (as were the 802s); presumably the order was altered early on (and with no publicity).
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Timmer
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« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2019, 05:39:01 pm »

As well as the buffets, the plans show that LNER have more 1st class seats on both 5 and 9 cars sets than GWR, meaning fewer standard class seats overall.
Which was also the original spec for the GWR IET fleet before they reduced 1st class accommodation on the entire HST fleet.

With LNER being a long distance operator, the amount of 1st class accommodation needed can be justified by the high number of ticket sales. A similar argument could be made for London to WoE services but would mean less Std seating.
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Phantom
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« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2019, 11:09:45 am »

Splitting the trains on the way ... 5+5 from Paddington to Bristol, 5 cars on to Weston-super-mare.  5+5 from Paddington to Plymouth, 5 cars on to Penzance. 5+5 cars to Swansea, 5 cars on to Carmarthen.

..... Also, I thought I read that the Weston trains run with one set empty rather than splitting, which would defeat the object of it.

That is indeed correct, after rush hour we often get a 5+5 set, and encouraged to use the front portion only
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Timmer
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« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2019, 11:12:54 am »

That is indeed correct, after rush hour we often get a 5+5 set, and encouraged to use the front portion only
What a waste of fuel and to keep in the topic of the hour producing carbon emissions to carry five empty carriages around.
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The Tall Controller
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« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2019, 11:53:55 am »

Its interesting to see that LNER have also reduced their First Class allocations:

225 set: 127 seats
HST set: 113 seats
Azuma 9-car: 106
Azuma 10-car: 96
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stuving
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2019, 01:14:43 pm »

Its interesting to see that LNER have also reduced their First Class allocations:

225 set: 127 seats
HST set: 113 seats
Azuma 9-car: 106
Azuma 10-car: 96

Well, that won't have been LNER's doing - nor VTEC's, as the original IEP layouts had 47 per 5 and 103 per 9 (including wheelchairs). Since then an extra companion seat has squeezed into each (the 9-car now has 104; there are two unused numbers in the MEF1).
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Godfrey Tables
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« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2019, 01:26:19 pm »

Hope I'm posting this in the right place and it's not a duplicate.

I've just been sent this link which is being circulated around various whatsApp groups. Thought I'd post it here as it may be of interest to others and a general point of discussion:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/great-western-railway-bring-back-the-buffet?bucket=&source=whatsapp-share-button
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Lee
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« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2019, 01:40:20 pm »

Hi Godfrey, I've merged your post into the already running topic.
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Godfrey Tables
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« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2019, 02:11:36 pm »

Thanks Lee  Smiley
I can't believe I didn't spot this thread already existed!  Embarrassed
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