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Author Topic: Crossrail - The Elizabeth Line - ongoing discussion, merged topics  (Read 214878 times)
tom-langley
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« on: October 17, 2007, 12:03:41 PM »

Finally Crossrail gets the go-ahead!

I think this is a great project, if not a bit expensive. For one thing it means quicker journey times into central London. Much needed increase in capacity in the form of longer trains on local services and the further electrification of the GWML to Maidenhead.

My one problem with this project is, why they could not extend it to Reading, Surely the main cost of the project is the tunnelling under London, so extending the line to Reading would produce benefits for a relatively low cost compared to the whole project. I hope that this project will spur the government to continue the electrification further west, and modernise the GWML.

Anyone knows what happens to the GWML line when they integrate it with crossrail. I have heard that Maidenhead will become a major interchange, so people coming in from further west will change from FGW to crossrail there. What happens to the FGW local services? How does it affect FGW long distance services?
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Shazz
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2007, 12:06:55 PM »

...it gets the "go ahead" every electionm time for the labour government.

i'm still skeptical to if it's actually going to happen this time
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Lee
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« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2008, 10:36:32 PM »

Project staff and experts will be in the Nicholson Shopping Centre for two days to explain to the public how the new train line, connecting Maidenhead to Central London, will affect Maidenhead, and to answer questions (link below.)
http://www.maidenhead-advertiser.co.uk/news/article-8144-find-out-about-crossrail-plans-in-public-exhibition/
 
It will also detail how the line will be constructed and how to get future updates on the project.

Maidenhead MP Theresa May will be one of the first people along to the exhibition which is due to open at 10am on Friday and run until 5.30pm on Saturday.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2008, 02:35:25 PM »

Cross Rail will now serve Heathrow Airport...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7707338.stm
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John R
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 02:37:01 PM »

Heathrow has always been part of Crossrail plans, albeit only the Connect service I believe.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 03:22:41 PM »

Even extension to Reading doesn't solve the problem that Crossrail doesn't work West of Paddington.

To the East you have 24 tph through the centre diverging 12 to Shenfiled and 12 to Abbey Wood.

To the West you have 24 tph coming out of the tunnel with only 10 tph proceeding beyond Westbourne Park. Which currently is suggested to be Heathrow 4 tph,  West Drayton 2 tph and   Maidenhead 4 tph. Which means 14 TPH terminate at Westbourne Park.

Given that it is meant to be a Tube style service (turn and get train within say 5 minutes or less) if you want staions West of West Drayton you can turn up at say Bond Street and possibly have to wait 15 minutes for a train and let 5 trains trains go by. Also depending on the sequence  of the trains you may find that you cannot get on your first train because it's full of people for Ealing to West Drayton. As happens now on the semis to Reading.

The only thing an extension to Reading will bring is non disruption of the very heavy commuter flows from Twyford and Reading to stations East of Maidenhead to Ealing. It will eliminate the need for change and retain through services.

Also it will still give a direct westward conecting service to Reading from stations between Ealing and  Maidenhead without requiring a change.

Cross rail desparately needs a second Western terminus.

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John R
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2008, 04:15:43 PM »

Presumably if you extended to Reading you would not just extend the 4 Maidenhead services to Reading but have 4 of the Paddington terminators running relatively fast to Reading (say EB, H&H, Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford, Reading)

They would then be just about fast enough to attract passengers travelling beyond Paddington to switch from the fast trains from further afield for the benefit of a through service to the West End, City or further east, and the guarantee of a seat for their whole journey as the services would start at Reading. This could have a major impact on the HSS's by reducing overcrowding between Reading and Paddington.   
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Lee
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2008, 08:38:10 PM »

DfT/BAA press release link.
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/fullDetail.asp?ReleaseID=383134&NewsAreaID=2&NavigatedFromDepartment=False
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Btline
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2008, 08:59:19 PM »

Why not incorporate Greenford?

Have 2tph terminating there to get terminating trains off the mainline, and allow other trains to skip Acton.

Plus an extra 2 tph for Ealing.

By the way, the plans above sound horrendous! Too complicated. Same on the Tube. Why have dozens of terminating places when you can simplify it and run more trains to the final destination (where capacity allows)?

And we still haven't answered the question about how FGW's Thames Turbo commuter service (from Banbury, Oxford and Tywford etc.) will fit in on the already saturated fast lines east of Maidenhead?
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2008, 09:55:52 PM »

The Greenford's are I think going to be a shuttle between West Ealing and Greenford, I have heard somewhere that TfL want to look at possibly running a passenger service Padd to West Ealing via the Wycombe lines with an inter change at Park Royal with the Central and Piccadilly lines but this is a long term aspiration.
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Btline
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 10:15:36 PM »

The Greenford's are I think going to be a shuttle between West Ealing and Greenford, I have heard somewhere that TfL want to look at possibly running a passenger service Padd to West Ealing via the Wycombe lines with an inter change at Park Royal with the Central and Piccadilly lines but this is a long term aspiration.

So not only will it end the need for a shuttle, it will retain direct trains from the branch into the city, and help solve the turnback problem.
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Lee
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 10:16:43 PM »

Further related links.
http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2008/11/very-crossrail.html

http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2008/11/penny-counting.html
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stebbo
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« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2008, 09:21:58 PM »

A service to Greenford up the Acton line, eh? Seems like another case of short-sighted singling a few years ago..........
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eightf48544
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« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2008, 10:15:28 PM »

Yep.

But how about this for a sceanario.

Chiltern build Bicester link and run Oxford  service to Marylebone. They then put in a bid "Evergreen n" to redouble from South Ruislip Old Oak and divert Oxfords to Padd when Crossrail starts. They coud also run fast Birminghams to compete with WCML.

After all they are clever enough to run the ghost train and keep up their drivers route knowledge.

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onthecushions
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2008, 01:20:36 PM »


The problem with Crossrail is the different aims of its promoters/lobbyists over the years.

TfL and London business see it mostly as a relief Central Line, wheras it was conceived, I believe, by Sir Peter Parker in the 1980's as a main-line link, enabling Bristol - Norwich type journeys, hence its non-tube character. London, having the most clout, has won of course but the loose ends, particularly at the West have not been tied up, hence the absurd 14tph terminating at Paddington. (Be sure to get off smartly or you'll enjoy a long and happy lay-over, chatting to the cleaners, in the new carriage sidings!). It's route, via Bond St. and Tottenham Court Road is more local than long distance as it misses the vital TENS/Intercity/International interchanges at Euston and KX/St Pancras. It may be too late now to get the route right. What we are left with is nearer a Paris RER Line B, (Line A was ThamesLink) with fast surface stock crossing under the City. Even the platform/train lengths are doubtful as HX has at present 9x23m car trains but Crossrail is to have only 8x20m cars. Heathrow connect uses sets of 5x23m cars, the more economical  formation.

In the West, the consultants, Steer Gleave correctly made the point that Reading commuters want non-stop services to London, not stopping Crossrails. What they missed is that Reading is said to have more commuters INWARDS than OUTWARDS. Its footfall of 15M puts it up with the busiest PTE termini. Thus  stopping Crossrail services to Reading would be uniquely profitable in that they would become busier as they approached Reading. The Benfit Cost Ratio (BCR) rises rapidly as Crossrail extends West to and beyond Reading. Only the unmodernised station layout hinders this.

The immediate nonsense  of Crossrail's missing 14 services could be remedied by small extensions to Greenford (pointed out in another post) and even to Aylesbury. The H&C line  is a surface stock gauge route and could be added to Crossrail, easing Metropolitan/Circle Line pathing, perhaps allowing the District Line to terminate usefully at Baker St rather than in mid-air at Edgware Rd, although a bay might be needed.

What a ^15Bn mess!

OTC
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