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Author Topic: Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion  (Read 592334 times)
ChrisB
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« Reply #1665 on: September 14, 2022, 11:03:20 »

To note that a Aunday service is running this Sunday to assist in moving those travelling for the Queen’s funeral. 12 tph.
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sanfrandragon
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« Reply #1666 on: September 14, 2022, 12:49:24 »

According to ITV:

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From Sunday 6 November, the lines from Reading, Heathrow, and Shenfield will connect with the central tunnels of the Elizabeth line - opening up new direct journeys across the capital.

Cool thanks.  That's the most exciting part of the project for me.
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« Reply #1667 on: September 14, 2022, 12:53:59 »

Cool thanks.  That's the most exciting part of the project for me.

It’ll certainly be a much sterner test of the infrastructure and timetable.  Though, despite the initial pre-launch pessimism of some, it has run pretty much perfectly since the initial opening.
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paul7575
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« Reply #1668 on: September 14, 2022, 15:05:10 »

I was surprised by a question coming up about the start of through running, because I was sure it had been well discussed at the time it was announced.  Huh

But I think this is an area where there are complementary discussions in different parts of the forum:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=22427.msg325085#msg325085

Paul
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JayMac
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« Reply #1669 on: September 28, 2022, 12:14:56 »

Bond St Elizabeth Line will open on 24th October.

BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) News - Elizabeth line: Bond Street station gets opening date
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-63054287

Edit note: I've taken the liberty of renaming this topic from 'Crossrail - a new railway for London' now that the Elizabeth Line is up and (nearly completely) running.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2022, 12:20:29 by JayMac » Logged

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ChrisB
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« Reply #1670 on: October 01, 2022, 16:31:41 »

From My London

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Warning over Elizabeth line, Heathrow Express and GWR (Great Western Railway) expected disrupted until 2028 due to HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) works

The Elizabeth line might have only just entered existence but another new railway line for the capital looks set to have a drastic knock-on effect on its operations. The high speed railway line between London and Birmingham known as 'High Speed 2 (HS2) Phase 1' currently being built, will meet the Elizabeth line, and Heathrow Express (HX) and Great Western Railway (GWR), at a new station called 'Old Oak Common', between Paddington and Acton Main Line. This is also where one of the current Elizabeth line train depots is located.

Although HS2 Phase 1 will be on a separate alignment to the tracks used by Elizabeth line, HX and GWR trains (the Great Western Main Line), construction of the station there is expected to cause knock-on disruption to the route for the next six years, until 2028, according to railway industry documents. At the moment there are no platforms for Elizabeth line, HX and GWR trains to stop there for interchange with HS2, so these will need to be built whilst the railway is shut.

Although this has always been expected, the scale of the disruption and the concerns it has caused have only been revealed thanks to the responses from industry bodies to a request by Grand Union Trains, a new operator, to run trains to Paddington along the same lines. A letter from Network Rail dated July 15, explains: "Construction of Old Oak Common station is a complex, multi-system process. It will necessarily restrict capacity during the build programme, which will be underway for a significant part of this time period."

This means fewer trains will be able to run or the trains which do run will take longer during the construction period, hence Grand Union Trains' application being rejected. A letter from the Department for Transport dated April 22, outlines what the capacity constraints mentioned above would be, notably "there has been initial analysis conducted in relation to the mainline [Elizabeth line, HX and GWR] platforms which indicates that the infrastructure would not be able to support a mixed stopping pattern with some services stopping and others not. This evidence suggests that all services would need to stop once the new platforms are completed."

It goes on: "there will be some significant engineering works required over the next few years that will be disruptive to [Elizabeth line, HX and GWR] services on the Great Western Main Line [...] the HS2 project has important targets to transport material to and from work sites via rail rather than road. Whilst this will be subject to standard industry processes for obtaining access, it should be noted that this is likely to cause some pressure on capacity."

That capacity issue has led to concerns at MTR Elizabeth Line, the company which runs Elizabeth line trains on behalf of Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)), which stated in an email response in June: "We are aware that Network Rail is progressing with a study to determine how capacity will be allocated between operators when there is engineering work taking place (i.e. a 2-track railway) to facilitate the construction of Old Oak Common station. Any reduction in Elizabeth line train paths on Western Route could result in a reduction in the service across central London and through to Abbey Wood and Shenfield." GWR's response also highlights: "Paths will be restricted during RoU for construction both under two track and all line block scenarios" meaning there will be periods when its trains won't be able to run to Paddington.

Work on the new station has been ongoing since 2017, with the main construction project getting underway last year. Work contracts advertised for the public realm works suggest they are scheduled for September 2024 to January 2028, with trade publication 'Modern Railways' reporting the main station works and subsequent disruption expected to last five years 2023-2028. The 2028 open date is also quoted by the London Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham website.

The new station being built at Old Oak Common will be the temporary terminus for the new line before a revamped, enlarged Euston Station is ready in the early 2030s. There are also plans to build new, connected stations at Hythe Road and Old Oak Common Lane which would be part of the same station complex, allowing interchange with the London Overground Stratford-Richmond/Clapham Junction route.

Once Elizabeth line services start stopping at Old Oak Common from 2028, Heathrow, Oxford Street, Stratford and Canary Wharf will all be within one change of Birmingham and destinations in the North via HS2.

The letter from Network Rail is attached for perusal. The Grand Union consultation responses are available via the web link in the post - it is too big to attach here. There's another thread in the latter about Go-Op complaining that Grand Union plans will discombobulate their plans for a TAU» (Taunton - next trains) to the north imaginary service.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1671 on: October 01, 2022, 16:49:08 »

Another piece from My London

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Crossrail: How Elizabeth line fares rip off Home Counties commuters to make London fares cheaper

You've probably been wooed by the Elizabeth line's sleek trains, frequent service and step-free access yesterday, but you might want to check your bank balance before you commit to it on a regular basis. The new cross-London railway line has one of the most intentionally complicated fares structures in the entire country. If you live within the Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)) fare zones, it means you generally get the cheapest fare, but if you don't, the fares structure is set up with 'traps' which force you to cough up extra cash.

It's purposely designed to convince more affluent Home Counties commuters to spend more money with TfL, which needs not only to pay back millions in Crossrail-related debt, but to also fill a £1.9billion funding gap as it is not expected to be financially sustainable until April 2023. The fares policy is also inconsistent - not just in terms of what you pay, but how you pay for it, which differs depending on who you are and where you're trying to travel to. Confused? Yes and that's the point.

Much of the revenue model (how the line makes money) for the new Elizabeth line is based on abstracting revenue from existing alternatives, notably the Tube, DLR (Docklands Light Railway) and parallel rail lines, some of which will be amended to make the Elizabeth line more attractive. For example, TfL forecasts that in 2031, of the 247.2 million journeys that will be made on the Elizabeth line, 37.1 million of them will actually be journeys that would have been made on the Central line originally - as the fares are the same over common sections i.e. Ealing Broadway to Stratford, that does not make TfL any money.

Instead, TfL hopes that people from the Home Counties (beyond Zone 6) will decide to take the faster, direct Elizabeth line to get across Central London, changing where necessary. It's planning that by 2031 over 60 million journeys will switch from GWR (Great Western Railway), Southeastern and SWR» (South Western Railway - about) in particular to take the new route instead. As MyLondon reveals below, these people would indeed have easier journeys, but have to pay extra for it through a lack of ticketing options.

You can't use Oyster (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) between West Drayton and Reading
This is the first ticketing constraint. If you want to catch the Elizabeth line at Reading, Twyford, Maidenhead, Taplow, Burnham, Slough, Langley or Iver, you cannot use an Oyster card. Instead, you have to use either a paper ticket or contactless. For many people, this is fine and the capping system will still save them some money, but as you cannot link a railcard (which offers a 30 per cent discount) to your contactless payment method, those who often have the least dispensable income, such as young people and the elderly, have to purchase a paper ticket.

Buying a paper ticket then creates extra problems for you. You cannot buy a paper ticket 'point-to-point' fare to any of the new stations on the Elizabeth line central section, meaning that if you want to travel between Twyford and Canary Wharf with a young person's railcard, you cannot - the fare does not exist. Instead you would have to either buy a paper Travelcard from Twyford or break your journey at West Drayton (the boundary of Zone 6) and then use an Oyster card. Real rail fares geeks will know that Travelcards tend not to be only around £4 more than the cost of a return ticket to Central London anyway, but Mayor Sadiq Khan is proposing to withdraw TfL services from the Travelcard Agreement, which would mean this option would cease to exist.

TfL says that it's due to technical reasons that Oyster is unavailable along this section of the Elizabeth line, as the nearly 20 year old technology simply could not handle the extra data. It is looking for other solutions, but as the Elizabeth line is already open any mitigation will come too late.

You must pay extra to travel to/from Heathrow Airport

This isn't a surprise given that trains between Paddington and Heathrow have always had a surcharge, however given the Elizabeth line is on the Tube map just like the Piccadilly is, you may assume they have the same fares, but they do not. Paddington to Heathrow costs £10.80 off-peak/£11.50 peak single on Oyster/contactless - a hefty premium of over £7 compared with the Tube, but usually cheaper than Heathrow Express. It will catch unfamiliar passengers out as signage and announcements about this premium are not always evident over the whole line or on trains.

Just like the Travelcard withdrawal mentioned above, City Hall has presented proposals to implement a Heathrow premium on Piccadilly line journeys between the airport and Zone 1. That would reduce the attractiveness of the alternative route and again push people onto the Elizabeth line. You can't buy a point-to-point ticket from outside the fare zones to the new
Elizabeth line stations

This is the biggest trap of all for the Home Counties. Go to any National Rail station outside Zone 6 with a National Rail ticket machine and try to type in one of the following destinations: Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road, Canary Wharf, Custom House or Woolwich. On some you simply can't and on others you are sold a Travelcard instead - you can test it out on the National Rail website now.

That's because the new Elizabeth line stations are not available as destinations for point-to-point tickets. If you live within the TfL fare zone area, that's ok because you can just tap in and out using Oyster or contactless, but if you don't you're forced to buy a Travelcard or split your journey. This will hit commuters to Canary Wharf as they won't have the option to buy a simple return ticket there from popular commuter towns just outside of the fare zones such as Gravesend, Guildford or Gerrards Cross. As TfL is now planning to axe Travelcards anyway, all of these people will eventually have to pay twice - once for their National Rail journey into the capital and then for the Elizabeth line.

For popular commuter journeys where you can't use Oyster but can use contactless (e.g. St Albans City-Canary Wharf, Reading-Farringdon, Welwyn Garden City-Tottenham Court Road), those with railcards are penalised as they cannot link them to contactless. Splitting your journey is also problematic as it can require you to touch in/out at the boundary station and boundary tickets aren't easily available, as is the subject of ongoing legal challenges potentially totalling £166million.

You can't use the Elizabeth line as a shortcut on many National Rail tickets even though it's a National Rail line
The traingeeks among us might say - hang on I can buy a National Rail ticket to travel to Paddington, Farringdon, Moorgate/Liverpool Street, Whitechapel and Abbey Wood anyway, so I'll just use the Elizabeth line as a shortcut. In many cases you'd be wrong. Unless your ticket has the route "Any Permitted", the asterisk/cross symbols (*/+) which allows you to cross London on TfL services anyway or a specific mention of a route "via Elizabeth line", you won't be able to use it.


Fares are in the process of being changed so that journeys such as Gravesend-Farringdon become "via City Thameslink", which will force you to use the Thameslink via City Thameslink instead of the Elizabeth line via Canary Wharf. If you wanted to use the faster Elizabeth line, you'd have to split your journey using contactless/Oyster or buy a Travelcard, both of which will cost more, with the Travelcard set to disappear anyway.

There are additional fares being added to the system which will allow for return fares between Home Counties stations and 'London Zone 1' or 'London Zones 1-4' which will allow for travel to the Elizabeth line stations, but by not simply adding them as new stations, the fares remain complicated and penalising. If you live in the Home Counties, travel to London regularly and want to save a few quid, you should stick to the original cross-London railway line as much as possible - Thameslink, which offers point-to-point fares to the cluster of its Central London stations ("London Thameslink") and has weekday and weekend 'super off peak' tickets which offer significant discounts, all of which you can use a railcard for.

On a separate note, don't forget that many TfL bus routes have also been re-routed to encourage more people to use the Elizabeth line - with bus fares currently at £1.65 but no standardised fares for part-Elizabeth line part-bus journeys, this will also likely be a revenue boost for the transport authority. An Elizabeth line single journey in Zone 1 is £2.50.

There are also a handful of bizarre anomalies even within the fares on Oyster. Take Elstree & Borehamwood, which is in Zone 6 - the single fares on Oyster to Elizabeth line stations are seemingly random:

Paddington (Zone 1): £8.90 (peak)/£6.00 (off-peak)
Bond Street (Z1): £8.90/£6.00
Tottenham Court Road (Z1): £8.90/£6.00
Farringdon (Z1): £7.30/£4.50
Liverpool Street (Z1): £7.30/£4.50
Whitechapel (Z2): £8.90/£6.00
Canary Wharf (Z2): £8.90/£6.00
Custom House (Z3): £8.90/£6.00
Woolwich (Z4): £7.30/£4.50
Abbey Wood (Z4): £7.30/£4.50
In this case, a journey all the way across London from Zone 6, through Zones 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3 and 4 is cheaper than a journey just to Zone 1. It's also cheaper to go to Liverpool Street one station east on the Elizabeth line after changing from Farringdon than to Tottenham Court Road one station west despite being in the same zone (presumably a legacy of the Thameslink arrangement at Moorgate, but appears totally random).

If in doubt, always check TfL's single fare finder as well doing your own research (split ticketing, your local train operating company's website or expert fares website BR (British Rail(ways)) Fares) to calculate what the best fare is for your journey!
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Surrey 455
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« Reply #1672 on: October 01, 2022, 21:07:00 »

Another piece from My London
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It's planning that by 2031 over 60 million journeys will switch from GWR (Great Western Railway), Southeastern and SWR» (South Western Railway - about) in particular to take the new route instead.

I'm not entirely sure how or why SWR passengers would switch to the Elizabeth line. It's not as if they they follow the same or similar routes. The only shared station is Reading.
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stuving
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« Reply #1673 on: October 01, 2022, 22:31:13 »

Another piece from My London
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It's planning that by 2031 over 60 million journeys will switch from GWR (Great Western Railway), Southeastern and SWR» (South Western Railway - about) in particular to take the new route instead.

I'm not entirely sure how or why SWR passengers would switch to the Elizabeth line. It's not as if they they follow the same or similar routes. The only shared station is Reading.

Well, last Saturday, and on 18th June. I went to Crown Court*, which is near the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden. I might have gone (from Wokingham) to Waterloo and walked across the river, but obviously in June there as an obvious reason to make my first visit to the Elizabeth Line. To Tottenham Court Road and walk down Endell Street also looked the quickest route. Without the EL the speed contest could go either way, but of course via Waterloo is appreciably cheaper.

Would you call that switching from SWR to EL?

* I wonder, might that be misunderstood?
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« Reply #1674 on: October 26, 2022, 16:49:17 »

Non-stop trains from Reading to central London:https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/23078950.connection-reading-elizabeth-line-london-stations-marks-completion-new-transport-development/
"The Elizabeth line is set to offer commuters from Reading a none stop journey to central London starting early next month (6/11)."

"From November 6 when the Reading station officially connects, trains service is said to increase to three to four minutes at peak times."

(More terrible journalism.) 

Just glanced at the National Rail website, but couldn't see anything to justify the non-stop claim.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #1675 on: October 26, 2022, 17:12:20 »

They mean direct rather than non-stop. At least that is the correct airline terminology  Grin
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« Reply #1676 on: October 26, 2022, 19:07:33 »

They've now altered "a none stop journey" to "a more direct journey".
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The Elizabeth line is set to offer commuters from Reading a more direct journey to central London starting early next month (6/11).
They have left various crimes against punctuation and spelling.
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« Reply #1677 on: October 28, 2022, 00:06:55 »

A shaken, not stirred, video from Geoff 'All the Stations' Marshall celebrating the opening of Bond Street station on the Elizabeth Line. A cameo from Mayor Sadiq Khan. He wasn't stroking a white cat though.

I think TfL» (Transport for London - about) missed a trick by not opening the station at 007am. Tongue

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« Reply #1678 on: October 28, 2022, 12:26:17 »

Geoff Marshall has reported on the recent opening of Bond Street station:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MInnRcpCxhI
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1679 on: October 28, 2022, 13:59:00 »

First warning from Natipnal Rail journeycheck issued this morning about disruption between Paddington & Abbey Wood. Anyone know what is was/is?
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