Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Geoff has, of course, reported on the through running on the Elizabeth Line which started on Monday.  Kind of overshadowed by the industrial action affecting the rail network, but very welcome nonetheless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXJQQ7YQ3gw

Interesting to hear that some old fashioned leaflet drops were done on the train, and that the temporary-until-next-May waits of up to seven minutes at Royal Oak were explained within them.  It's quite odd seeing passengers on trains emerging from the Royal Oak portal.

If anyone on here is using the new through service, it would be great to hear what they think of it?

[Electric train]

Interesting to hear that some old fashioned leaflet drops were done on the train, and that the temporary-until-next-May waits of up to seven minutes at Royal Oak were explained within them.  It's quite odd seeing passengers on trains emerging from the Royal Oak portal.

If anyone on here is using the new through service, it would be great to hear what they think of it?

Used it this afternoon, from City Thameslink to Farringdon then through service to Maidenhead.  There was quite a bit of dwell time at the platform at Paddington and then waited at Royal Oak for the xx:27 Pad - Did to pass.

It was odd emerging from the depths at Royal Oak  on close to what would have been the original DN Relife prior to the 1960 separation of the 'ot n cold and the WR lines

[TonyN]

If anyone on here is using the new through service, it would be great to hear what they think of it?

I also used it today:
I took the oppertunity to travel from the Cotswold line and change at Slough then through to Canary Wharf on the Elizabeth line. This will not be available after the December timetable change.
I left Slough at 11:20 on a well filled train with the passenger information screens and automatic announcements not working. Also the maps where still the old ones showing the need to change stations at Paddington and Liverpool street. The driver made good clear announcements at all stations and while waiting at Westbourne park.
We where held for 4 minutes at Ealing Broadway having arrived 3 early. At Westbourne park we where held for the booked 6 minutes, the empty stock for a Paddington Shenfield service departed from the adjacent turnback siding 2 minutes ahed of us. Arrival at Canary Wharf was exactly 1 hour after leaving Slough.

On my return I took the DLR^▸ (Docklands Light Railway) to Stratford and the Elizabeth line to Paddington taking 22 minutes this train had working passenger information and the maps showing the trough working.

All very impressive. Finding my way around Canary Wharf that's another matter.

[IndustryInsider]

I took the oppertunity to travel from the Cotswold line and change at Slough then through to Canary Wharf on the Elizabeth line. This will not be available after the December timetable change.

Thanks for the report.  I think it's next May when all stops at Slough from the Cotswold Line are being removed though?

[IndustryInsider]

Things seem to be running pretty smoothly with the through trains and the much higher risk of trains presenting themselves at the three main portals delayed and/or out of sync.

One thing I have noticed is that the resilience at Abbey Wood could do with being improved.  There is usually around a 13-minute allowance for trains to form their next working.  That is great unless something is running late and out of sync as it means both platform are occupied at Abbey Wood nearly all the time (a departing train is replaced by the next arrival just two or three minutes later).  So if a train is out of sync it can find itself waiting a platform for an additional 5+ minutes, and then it will leave late on its next working with all the knock on effects that might have further west.

The solution?  Well, an additional third Elizabeth Line platform at Abbey Wood is the ideal solution, but sadly that would cost a lot of money and disruption given the quite constrained station layout.  Perhaps a more feasible idea would be to provide a turnback siding after the previous stop at Woolwich, just after Plumstead East Junction?  Trains running out of sync can then terminate at Woolwich and shunt out of the way, before returning to the platform for their next working with an on-time or much reduced delayed departure.

[ChrisB]

I took the oppertunity to travel from the Cotswold line and change at Slough then through to Canary Wharf on the Elizabeth line. This will not be available after the December timetable change.

Thanks for the report.  I think it's next May when all stops at Slough from the Cotswold Line are being removed though?

Assuming this is what TonyN is referring to, yes, next May is when the Slough stops are coming out of the North Cots services.

[sanfrandragon]

I couldn't find this discussed elsewhere, but apologies if I'm re-hashing old ground:

My normal trip has been Maidenhead to west London using GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) non-stop services and the tube, paid for using one of the new flexi-tickets and credit card for the tube.  The Elizabeth Line isn't really any quicker - no changeover at Paddington but stopping at all stations into Paddington makes for a longer journey.  Also I can't use the flexi-ticket on the Elizabeth Line as you can't tap in/out at the gates at a tube station.

With the disruption this week I have been caught out using my GWR flexi-ticket to enter the station, but ending up using the Elizabeth Line due to delayed GWR trains, or using GWR into London in the am, but returning via the Elizabeth Line, so paying twice in effect.  I'm wondering if I can reclaim for the flexi-ticket on the Delay Repay scheme and if I'm thinking about this all wrong? 

[Ralph Ayres]

It would help to know exactly what you mean by "using the Elizabeth line" and "west London".

A flexi-season is valid interchangeably on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and Lizzie trains between the named stations covered by your ticket (and should work downstairs at Paddington Lizzie) unless it actually states "GWR-only" or something similar on whatever human readable confirmation you get of what is on the card.  It won't have been issued for a journey inward of Paddington, eg to Bond Street.  Not tapping your GWR Smartcard at both ends of the bit covered by the flexi-season isn't a problem so far as I'm aware, but the first tap will have clocked that day as a use of the Flexi-Season.  Also you should always tap your credit card at the start of the Tube payg bit, so if you're changing onto the tube at Ealing Broadway without tapping it in, or staying on the same Lizzie train at Paddington (when obviously you can't tap in), you are without a valid ticket from that point, and will also get charged a maximum London fare when you tap out at your Tube destination.  All a bit inconvenient for the user on journeys like this, but TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s view is that they've already done a better and more flexible equivalent of a flexi-season where they have control over fares by making each day's travel 1/5 of a week's worth and don't see why they should get involved in an inferior product that someone else has come up with. Possibly a bit childish, but I suspect the way the fares are divi-ed up between the various parties is a factor.

All this means that you're probably more out of pocket than you realise, but TfL are unlikely to refund you more than one or two of their max fares as a goodwill gesture and will remind you always to use your credit card at both ends of the journey in future. If a GWR train is late or cancelled the delay repay rules are on their website but don't expect them to refund your payg tube journey overpayment as well!

[sanfrandragon]

Thank you for your detailed reply!  I think the ticket crossover problems will only arise after I've entered Maidenhead station with my flexi ticket to take a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) train only to find it is delayed and have to take an Elizabeth Line train instead, or I have travelled into London in the morning using my flexi ticket, but then have to return using the Elizabeth Line due to disruption.  In the past week's disruption it seems that GWR trains to Maidenhead get cancelled with the expectation that passengers can take the Elizabeth Line instead.

[Marlburian]

"Reading estate agent thinks that Elizabeth Line won't impact price of property in town."

Which contrasts with the hype that some of his colleagues were frothing several years ago.

"Matt said: 'The problem with estate agents is they will just say that everything's brilliant and everything's going up. I do think that could be the case but it won’t be just because of the Elizabeth Line its more generally to do with the big businesses that are moving into Reading.'”

[Mark A]

Published, the timetable from 21st May this year (through trains):

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-timetable-may-2023.pdf

Mark

[Ralph Ayres]

Presumably Monday-Friday never quite settles down to "at the same minutes past each hour" as the weekend timetable does. I'm guessing it nearly does (can't bring myself to analyse it fully!) and in such cases I sometimes think it would be better to pretend it does even if occasional trains don't quite manage to run to time.  Far easier to remember, and with all the warnings about doors closing X seconds/minutes before the timetable says the train leaves, you can't rely on the precise minute anyway.

Here's hoping GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) or the national timetable people will still produce a table showing all trains serving any stations between Paddington and Reading (Ealing Bdy, Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford from memory?) rather than having to juggle 2 separate ones for the relevant journeys.

[grahame]

Presumably Monday-Friday never quite settles down to "at the same minutes past each hour" as the weekend timetable does. I'm guessing it nearly does (can't bring myself to analyse it fully!) ...

At a quick glance, the daytime arrivals into Reading are a bit "off" - probably due to freight paths.   
11:10, 11:40, 12:10, 12:40, 13:12, 13:43, 14:11, 14:40, 15:10, 15:42 ....

Most of the rest looks pretty standard.

[Ollie]

Here's hoping GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) or the national timetable people will still produce a table showing all trains serving any stations between Paddington and Reading (Ealing Bdy, Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford from memory?) rather than having to juggle 2 separate ones for the relevant journeys.

The current GWR version (T10) includes Elizabeth line services, not sure if the new version will, hopefully it will.
Majority of GWR stopping services will be first stop Slough on departure from Paddington.

[stuving]

According to OnLondon, TfL^» (Transport for London - about) will be buying some more trains for the Elizabeth Line to carry more passengers to and from Old Oak Common while HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) ends there:

Transport for London to buy more Elizabeth Line trains due to HS2 delays

Transport for London has revealed it will have to buy additional Elizabeth line trains in order to make up for the recently-announced delay in the High Speed 2 (HS2) route reaching Euston.

Announcing publication of its annal budget for 2023/24, TfL says the extra trains will be needed to help HS2 passengers coming to London from the West Midlands complete journeys to the centre of the city after disembarking at Old Oak Common, which will be the capital’s only HS2 station when the service starts running.

Procurement needs to begin in order to “provide extra capacity once the new Old Oak Common station opens and High Speed 2 services begin in the early 2030s,” TfL says. “They will need to use the Elizabeth line to travel to and from Central London until HS2 is extended to Euston station in the 2040s.”

TfL adds that “confirmation of government funding to cover the additional rolling stock is needed” so the trains can be ordered and built “before manufacturing production lines at Alstom’s factory in Derbyshire are demobilised. Failing to do so would mean delays and higher costs to remobilise the workforce, source materials and ensure the additional trains are ready to enter service”...