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Author Topic: Crossrail - The Elizabeth Line - ongoing discussion, merged topics  (Read 196254 times)
4064ReadingAbbey
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« Reply #930 on: July 16, 2017, 05:22:01 PM »

As has been posted in another forum (uk.railway), and I must say that I agree with the sentiments expressed which is why I am doing a cut-and-paste job here, it seems that the basic issue with increasing the Crossrail frequencies is that TfL wants to run trains at metro/tube-type frequencies over part of a mixed traffic railway. This railway also serves communities 60 or more miles from London and carries significant volumes of freight traffic. To me it seems perverse that London's perceived interests can result in people and companies a long way away being disadvantaged.

The freight issue seems to have been a bit forgotten although Crossrail has paid for the new diveunder at the entrance to Acton yard. When questions of pathing crop up it is often suggested that freight can run off-peak or at night. I don't think this is a long term solution. The FOCs run on such wafer-thin margins that if their usage of their locos, wagons and staff are constrained in such a way that their unit costs are increased and they lose some traffic it doesn't help anyone - least of all people using the roads. Similarly why should the passenger from Pangbourne to Slough or Goring to Maidenhead (as examples) have his or her journey made more complicated or less convenient?

If TfL want to run its London-centric services at such high frequencies that it affects other services which in a sense have 'grandfather rights' it should buy its own tracks. In the first instance I would suggest least as far as the Airport/Stockley Junctions.
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eightf48544
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« Reply #931 on: July 17, 2017, 09:36:55 AM »

As well as Crossrail, waiting in the wings to use the Relief Lines are Heathrow Express to their depot at Langley and the Western Link to Heathrow. In both cases if built.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #932 on: July 17, 2017, 10:23:47 AM »

I would imagine the western link will use the existing Crossrail train paths with through trains from Reading via Heathrow to Shenfield/Abbey Wood, though that does throw up a problem for Iver and West Drayton which would then be missed out.
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Tim
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« Reply #933 on: July 17, 2017, 11:40:06 AM »

it is often suggested that freight can run off-peak or at night

the trouble with running freight off peak is that TfL seems to want regular interval frequent services throughout the day. 
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eightf48544
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« Reply #934 on: July 17, 2017, 12:31:25 PM »

I would imagine the western link will use the existing Crossrail train paths with through trains from Reading via Heathrow to Shenfield/Abbey Wood, though that does throw up a problem for Iver and West Drayton which would then be missed out.

IT has been said by Crossrail spokesmen that they have no wish to run past T5. Therefore it would be for the mainline operator to run through to Paddington. Although the Link designers are planning to provide a crossover box just West of T5 to allow a shuttle service from the West.
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paul7755
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« Reply #935 on: July 17, 2017, 12:38:54 PM »

Let's just re-emphasise that even after all these announcements  (since about March),  the actual off-peak service increase is still just the two extra trains to Heathrow T5.  So as far as the impact on freight is concerned this should be between Acton Yard and Stockley only, and between Stockley and Reading the off-peak timetable hasn't changed as far as I can see.

So is it possible that taken across the wider internet there's a bit of an exaggeration?   TfL run a higher intensity service on the NLL amongst freights as far as I can see, without the world ending...

Paul
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John R
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« Reply #936 on: July 17, 2017, 01:25:51 PM »

I would imagine the western link will use the existing Crossrail train paths with through trains from Reading via Heathrow to Shenfield/Abbey Wood, though that does throw up a problem for Iver and West Drayton which would then be missed out.

IT has been said by Crossrail spokesmen that they have no wish to run past T5. Therefore it would be for the mainline operator to run through to Paddington. Although the Link designers are planning to provide a crossover box just West of T5 to allow a shuttle service from the West.

Though it would appear much more efficient to run Crossrail services from T5 to Reading once the western link is open.  Else you have two lots of terminating trains turning round at Heathrow, which can be removed by running through. 
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #937 on: July 17, 2017, 06:32:33 PM »

Quote
TfL run a higher intensity service on the NLL amongst freights as far as I can see, without the world ending...

Huh

6tph off peak, 8tph in the peak on the NLL. Admittedly though more freights run across this section than the GWR
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #938 on: July 25, 2017, 01:05:42 PM »

If you want to see the spectacular acceleration of the new Crossrail Class 345s, then take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxb35_oBsV4

Leaves anything else on the national rail network standing in the starting blocks!  Also note how obediently the passengers observe the 'please don't board when the doors are closing announcement' especially the girl in the pink rucksack who looks completely uninterested in boarding until making a last gasp kamikaze leap!  Cheesy
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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« Reply #939 on: July 25, 2017, 02:32:09 PM »

If you want to see the spectacular acceleration of the new Crossrail Class 345s, then take a look at this video:

Supposedly that is needed for those 1 in 27 slopes in the tunnels. However, as I think they are (like on the deep tubes) up into stations, it's not clear it needs much spare acceleration up them.

How much of that traction you can safely use, and base the timetable on, when on rails left lying about in the weather is another matter.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 05:17:23 PM by stuving » Logged
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #940 on: July 25, 2017, 04:33:49 PM »

Takes some getting used to not having a yellow end...... Tongue
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stuving
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« Reply #941 on: July 25, 2017, 05:18:57 PM »

Takes some getting used to not having a yellow end...... Tongue

Pills working, then, are they?
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Electric train
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« Reply #942 on: July 27, 2017, 08:46:36 PM »

Takes some getting used to not having a yellow end...... Tongue

Pills working, then, are they?

Its ok for the S&T at least they still have double yellows  Grin Grin
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #943 on: August 17, 2017, 09:45:10 PM »

I had a trip on a Class 345 train today.  Plenty of pictures and videos are available from other sources so I won't bother posting them.

The overall experience was pretty positive.  Talk of 'cattle trucks' is not borne out of my experiences today and the train has a lovely spacious feeling inside with the purple and grey colour scheme looking very nice in my opinion.  Tinted glass panels at various points help give a feeling of segregation, and the mix of longitudinal and transverse seats blend quite well.  I personally would have preferred a higher ratio of transverse seats but this would not have enabled any more seats to have been installed, and you have to remember this is designed as a mass people mover - something it will do very well.  Ditto I would have liked to see a toilet or two installed.

Negatives include the CIS and announcements, which do not make best use of the design and can be confusing.  Hopefully they will be resolved with a software update.

Ride quality was smooth and acceleration excellent.  No idea if it was maxing out, but we did 0-60 in under 35 seconds, by which time a Turbo would be doing less than half that speed!
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #944 on: September 26, 2017, 04:08:33 PM »

Latest progress update from TfL.  Too long to quote here:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/board-20170919-item11-elizabeth-line-final.pdf
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