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Author Topic: Crossrail - The Elizabeth Line - ongoing discussion, merged topics  (Read 266842 times)
Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #945 on: October 29, 2017, 10:00:03 am »

The first Crossrail unit should be seen in our region in the next few days with testing runs pencilled in from Monday onwards
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« Reply #946 on: November 09, 2017, 06:17:27 pm »

A summary of the alterations taking place as a result of the Christmas blockade this year (Crossrail Stage M):

1) To facilitate the new Crossrail lines there will be changes to the layout between Royal Oak and Portobello Junction:
  • At Paddington line 6 will be truncated at Royal Oak with a 30mph crossover to/from Line 5.
  • The formation of the current line 6 beyond that point will be the CRL Westbound Line as far as Westbourne Park.
  • Beyond that the formation becomes the CRL Eastbound Line as far as Portobello Junction.
  • The two main Crossrail running lines will be supplemented by a through turnback loop (Turnback A) and two turnback sidings (B and C)

These alterations will mean the layout between Paddington and Kensal Green is slightly restricted on what is available now until Crossrail trains start running at the end of 2019.

2) Iver Up Loop points will be renewed with a higher speed turnout ready for re-opening of the loop at a later date.

3) Flashing signals will be provided at T548 and T544 for when a route is set from Up Relief to Up Main at Slough West Junction.

In addition there are numerous other small changes to signals, route indications, and permissible speeds.

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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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« Reply #947 on: November 12, 2017, 09:39:29 pm »

With Crossrail ridiculously claiming that track laying was officially complete on September 14, I wonder how they will report this work being completed. The major railway publications accepted the Crossrail press release without checking the facts.

For those interested I found the following PDF by Googleing 'ETCS' and 'CROSSRAIL', which has track and signalling layouts at Westbourne Park, and an explanation of the transitions between signalling systems.

https://www.networkrailconsulting.com/news-and-publications/publications/etcs-and-cbtc-interfaces-crossrail-signalling/download

Sometime in the future, according to a track plan, there also needs to be a new facing crossover in the Up Main to Down Relief at Kensal Green (after signal SN120). This will permit Elizabeth Line trains on the Up Main to reach the Eastbound tunnel.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #948 on: November 12, 2017, 10:22:15 pm »

I did post a drawing showing the final track layout way back in this very topic, but it was lost in the PHOTBUCKET fiasco.  I'll dig it out and post it again here as soon as I can...... Wink
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« Reply #949 on: November 12, 2017, 11:01:42 pm »

it is often suggested that freight can run off-peak or at night

the trouble with running freight off peak is that TfL seems to want regular interval frequent services throughout the day. 

All the talk about TfL wanting this or that is superfluous - I thought Hong Kong's MTR had been given the operating contract for the Tin-Lizzie Line three year's ago?

At a recent meeting concerning the progress - or rather total lack of - rebuilding Hayes & Harlington Station it appeared that it was the requirements of MTR that was delaying things there. MTR has to realise that the Tin-Lizzie Line is not an out and back Hong Kong Metro line - but is a real mainline with mixed freight / intercity / psuedo metro services / steam specials. Like their involvement with SWT and its varied inter-connected routes, MTR are going to find the challenges of running Tin-Lizzie trains vastly different to out and back Hong Kong Metro services.

And the GWR main line has two big issues that have disrupted services for years, and these look likely to continue, being: 1/ continual and consistent signal failures, and 2/ numerous disturbed individuals from local ethnic communities who take drastic action to 'solve' their problems.

And I bet MTR management haven't any experience of negotiating with such as our rail unions. In China I suspect its 'do as we say' and staff are not unionised.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 11:11:23 pm by CJB666 » Logged
bignosemac
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« Reply #950 on: November 12, 2017, 11:25:47 pm »

MTR have heavy rail experience in the UK, Sweden, Australia and Mainland China. In the UK they operated the London Overground services for nine years on lines used by freight, suburban and longer distance passenger services.

Having run the London Overground concession for nine years they would have gained plenty of experience dealing with the RMT, ASLEF and TSSA.

MTR Corporation is far more than just an 'out and back' metro operator. Not the first time you've peddled that innacurate description of them though.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #951 on: November 13, 2017, 07:29:07 am »

With Crossrail ridiculously claiming that track laying was officially complete on September 14, I wonder how they will report this work being completed. The major railway publications accepted the Crossrail press release without checking the facts.

Wasn’t the track laying claim referring to the tunnelled sections?
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
stuving
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« Reply #952 on: November 13, 2017, 09:23:44 am »

With Crossrail ridiculously claiming that track laying was officially complete on September 14, I wonder how they will report this work being completed. The major railway publications accepted the Crossrail press release without checking the facts.

Wasn’t the track laying claim referring to the tunnelled sections?

In the text, yes, mostly, but overzealous PR once again made nonsense of that in the headings:
Quote
Elizabeth line permanent track installation is complete
Thursday 14th September 2017
By Dagmar Dua

A significant milestone has been marked today with the official completion of the permanent track for the Elizabeth line – London’s newest railway.

Secretary of State for Transport Chris Grayling and Deputy Mayor for Transport Val Shawcross joined Crossrail Chairman Sir Terry Morgan and Chief Executive Andrew Wolstenholme 35 metres below ground, in the eastbound tunnel of the new Whitechapel Elizabeth line station – where the final rail clips were affixed to the track by Ellen McGuinness, Track Quality Control Engineer, to commemorate the milestone.

With the track fully laid, the £14.8 billion project has entered a new phase as construction trains are now able to travel the full length of both new tunnels from end to end.  A construction train completed the journey for the first time earlier this summer – entering at Plumstead in east London, passing through 9 new central station platforms and exiting at Royal Oak Portal in the west, with light at both ends of the tunnel.
And there's also the weasel content of that word "permament" - the connections at all ends will be temporary for a while. Though of course they haven't completed the permanent track that will replace those connections ...

They were also claiming to run trains through from end to end, but that only works for the two ends and Plumstead and Royal Oak. The third end at Pudding Mill Lane is still to be finished.

Odd, really. From the start, Crossrail were far too keen to put the label "Crossrail" on the tracks otherwise known as the GW Reliefs, and other associated infrastructure. Now they seem to want to dissociate themselves from anything being built for them by network Rail. I wonder why.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:51:39 am by stuving » Logged
SandTEngineer
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« Reply #953 on: November 13, 2017, 11:58:41 am »

Here is the final track layout as previously published earlier in this topic (but since removed following the demise of PHOTOBUCKET).

As usual this drawing should be taken with a Health Warning as it may not be up to date  (e.g. I am aware that an additional crossover is going in at Paddington to allow the Royal Oak sidings to be accessed from Platform Nos.2 to 5).  If anybody would like a higher resolution copy then please send me a PM with an email address.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 12:35:50 pm by SandTEngineer » Logged

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paul7755
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« Reply #954 on: November 13, 2017, 03:54:10 pm »

MTR Corporation is far more than just an 'out and back' metro operator. Not the first time you've peddled that innacurate description of them though.  Roll Eyes
Yes, and see also SWR, that other well known 'out and back metro operator' MTR are involved with.   But in any case, MTR are TfL's contractor, it will be TfL who are bidding to NR for the timetable.

Paul
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #955 on: November 13, 2017, 04:06:33 pm »


All the talk about TfL wanting this or that is superfluous - I thought Hong Kong's MTR had been given the operating contract for the Tin-Lizzie Line three year's ago?

At a recent meeting concerning the progress - or rather total lack of - rebuilding Hayes & Harlington Station it appeared that it was the requirements of MTR that was delaying things there. MTR has to realise that the Tin-Lizzie Line is not an out and back Hong Kong Metro line - but is a real mainline with mixed freight / intercity / psuedo metro services / steam specials. Like their involvement with SWT and its varied inter-connected routes, MTR are going to find the challenges of running Tin-Lizzie trains vastly different to out and back Hong Kong Metro services.

Do you know what a Tin Lizzie is? Can you please clarify the relevance to this topic?

Quote
2/ numerous disturbed individuals from local ethnic communities who take drastic action to 'solve' their problems.

Could you quote the source of your statistics please or is that just another sweeping generalisation?


Quote
And I bet MTR management haven't any experience of negotiating with such as our rail unions. In China I suspect its 'do as we say' and staff are not unionised.

I think you'll find most Chinese people, be they individuals or as part of a larger organisation are a lot more sophisticated, enterprising, worldly wise and intelligent than you appear to give them credit for.
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« Reply #956 on: November 13, 2017, 05:26:59 pm »

Sometime in the future, according to a track plan, there also needs to be a new facing crossover in the Up Main to Down Relief at Kensal Green (after signal SN120). This will permit Elizabeth Line trains on the Up Main to reach the Eastbound tunnel.

The crossover is to be installed over the Christmas possession, but will not be commissioned until a later date.  The signal head of SN120 has already been fitted with Junction Indicators 2 and 3 in readiness.

Also, in my summary of changes I missed the works on Royal Oak Carriage Loop lines A and B which will be electrified and brought back into use with new signals fitted at the London end along with a new crossover (already partially installed) which will allow, as others have stated previously, movements towards Platforms 1-5 rather than just Platform 1 as has been the case for many years.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #957 on: November 13, 2017, 06:55:59 pm »

---snip---

I think you'll find most Chinese people, be they individuals or as part of a larger organisation are a lot more sophisticated, enterprising, worldly wise and intelligent than you appear to give them credit for.

Whilst I was reading your post Chris, I really thought the last word was going to be "be", instead of the last 4 words of your sentence
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« Reply #958 on: November 13, 2017, 07:30:59 pm »

In any case, I can't see the rail unions' top brass putting up with any Chinese practices. They're all communists according to the Daily Mail.
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« Reply #959 on: November 14, 2017, 08:10:42 am »


Do you know what a Tin Lizzie is? Can you please clarify the relevance to this topic?



"Lizzie" - slang for Elizabeth
"Tin" -  a closed metal container for the distribution of .....

Hence the Elizabeth line which will use metal (bodied) containers to transport contents aka people or at times sardines  Grin
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 05:53:40 pm by Electric train » Logged

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