Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[martyjon]

DD should get a job at the Treasury. Another place where they get their millions and billions muddled up ! And I mean Didcot Dean not David Davis !

But which definition of a billion do you use. I've heard a billion is a thousand million, i.e. nine zeros after the one but I've also encountered people who define a billion as a million million i.e twelve zeros after the one.

I use the thousand million version so I'll empty my money box and start counting 1p, 2p, 3p....

[didcotdean]

Although I could make up some story that I really meant 1 milliard on the old long scale, it was a late night typo by me for £1bn. It was Harold Wilson who set that the Government would use the short scale numbers exclusively in 1974, contrary to past UK^▸ (United Kingdom) practice plus that extensively elsewhere in Europe.

[TonyK]

Although I could make up some story that I really meant 1 milliard on the old long scale, it was a late night typo by me for £1bn. It was Harold Wilson who set that the Government would use the short scale numbers exclusively in 1974, contrary to past UK^▸ (United Kingdom) practice plus that extensively elsewhere in Europe.

As my grandfather used to say "Good old Mr Wilson!" I have no ideas whether he meant it or not. It makes perfect sense to use what I was told at school were the American definitions of billion and trillion. It avoids confusion, and also means no-one ever has to say that Crossrail costs sixteen thousand million.

[Bmblbzzz]

So they're looking for an extra £100 crore. Perhaps it's fallen into one of the tricky crevices between departments?

[martyjon]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) R4 reporting now the need for £2 billion to complete it, why not abandon the project and cancel HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) and instead we could have Portishead, the Henbury Loop, complete redoubling of the Cotswold Line, redoubling Thingley Junction to Bradford Junction including a rebuilt Melksham station with a buffet and full ticketing opportunities and passenger toilets for the regular no onboard toilet facilities services, Bradford North curve re-instatement and still have change left over to pay for Devizes Parkway. 

[nickswift99]

Sounds excellent. Looking forward to seeing Melksham cope with hundreds of thousands of commuters a day. Perhaps we could also arrange for the Strategic War Reserve to be fitted with ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation) to run a high density service through Box Tunnel? 

[Red Squirrel]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) R4 reporting now the need for £2 billion to complete it, why not abandon the project and cancel HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) and instead we could have Portishead, the Henbury Loop, complete redoubling of the Cotswold Line, redoubling Thingley Junction to Bradford Junction including a rebuilt Melksham station with a buffet and full ticketing opportunities and passenger toilets for the regular no onboard toilet facilities services, Bradford North curve re-instatement and still have change left over to pay for Devizes Parkway. 

You're forgetting the new Group Standard that insists on platinum rails, ebony sleepers and diamond crossings... £1BN wouldn't even get you a waiting shelter these days.

[stuving]

This is TfL^» (Transport for London - about)'s announcement. It contins the outline of the new funding agreed with HMG:

The emerging findings of the KPMG review into Crossrail Ltd's finances indicate the likely capital cost impact of the delay to the project announced in August could be in the region of between £1.6bn and £2bn. That includes the £300m already contributed by the Department for Transport (DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)) and TfL in July 2018, leaving an estimated £1.3bn to £1.7bn to complete the project.

The Mayor of London and the Government have agreed a financial package to cover this. The Greater London Authority (GLA) will borrow up to £1.3bn from the DfT. The GLA will repay this loan from the existing Business Rate Supplement (BRS^▸ (Business Rates Supplement)) and Mayoral Community Infrastructure Levy (MCIL^» (Mayor's Community Infrastructure Levy - about)). The GLA will also provide a £100m cash contribution, taking its total contribution to £1.4bn which it will provide as a grant to TfL for the Crossrail project.

Because the final costs of the Crossrail project are yet to be confirmed, a contingency arrangement has also been agreed between TfL and the Government. This will be in the form of a loan facility from the DfT of up to £750m, should the higher end of the estimate be realised.

This combined financing deal will replace the need for the £350 million interim financing package offered by the Government in October.

[stuving]

One of the points made by Sadiq Khan was that he had ordered the release of all the CRL board minutes. They are here, but the last of them (they are monthly) is for September. A lot of the names and numbers are hidden by the big black marker pen, and while cost to completion and risk are given the meaning of the figures is not clear (to me, anyway). All the figures do, however look far too low relative to size of the just-announced bung. But someone else may be abel to make more sense of them.

[rower40]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) R4 reporting now the need for £2 billion to complete it, why not abandon the project

Shades of Marc Brunel's Thames Tunnel.  Built for freight but no money to build the access ramps, so was a pedestrian tunnel only.  The Crossrail tunnels, without connecting them to National Rail network at Westbourne Park and Pudding Mill Lane junctions, would make a lovely Trans-London cycle route.

[Clan Line]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) R4 reporting now the need for £2 billion to complete it, why not abandon the project and cancel HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) and instead we could have Portishead, the Henbury Loop, complete redoubling of the Cotswold Line, redoubling Thingley Junction to Bradford Junction including a rebuilt Melksham station with a buffet and full ticketing opportunities and passenger toilets for the regular no onboard toilet facilities services, Bradford North curve re-instatement and still have change left over to pay for Devizes Parkway. 

You're forgetting the new Group Standard that insists on platinum rails, ebony sleepers and diamond crossings... £1BN wouldn't even get you a waiting shelter these days.

........and the new rolling stock for Cardiff - Portsmouth with 3 abreast seating and Alpaca wool upholstery and carpets !

[didcotdean]

Burried away in the TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Business Plan under "Mitigating the impact of the Crossrail delay"

Pursue implementation of Reading to Paddington services ahead of completion of the Elizabeth Line to partially mitigate revenue loss

[TaplowGreen]

Burried away in the TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Business Plan under "Mitigating the impact of the Crossrail delay"

Pursue implementation of Reading to Paddington services ahead of completion of the Elizabeth Line to partially mitigate revenue loss

Sounds sensible.

[IndustryInsider]

Indeed.  It’s a bit of a waste seeing dozens of brand new trains sat in Old Oak Common doing precious little, and would be rather embarrassing if that continued to be the case for years.

[Dispatch Box]

Indeed.  It’s a bit of a waste seeing dozens of brand new trains sat in Old Oak Common doing precious little, and would be rather embarrassing if that continued to be the case for years.

Could,nt they use them on other lines for now, make sense would,nt it.