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Author Topic: Crossrail - The Elizabeth Line - ongoing discussion, merged topics  (Read 324480 times)
stuving
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« Reply #1125 on: January 12, 2019, 04:41:50 pm »

Now seems a good time to invite you to look at the Crossrail Learning Legacy programme - if only because it may be taken down soon! WARNING: Please make sure you are not eating anything you might choke on when you look at this.

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About Learning Legacy

Learning Legacy is the collation and dissemination of good, practice, innovation and lessons learned from the Crossrail construction programme aimed at raising the bar in industry and showcasing UK PLC.

The Crossrail learning legacy builds on the work previously undertaken on the London 2012 Learning Legacy and contributes to an overall body of knowledge on major construction projects.  It aims to share:

    Knowledge and insight gained during the lifetime of the Programme that may be of benefit to future projects and programmes
    Documents and templates that have been used successfully on the Programme that can be ‘pinched with pride’ by other projects
    Datasets that can inform future research projects
    The experts behind the delivery of the Crossrail Programme
There's much more at that link.

When I first came across this, some time ago, the words "hubris" and "tempting fate" did flicker across my consciousness...
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patch38
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« Reply #1126 on: January 12, 2019, 04:50:56 pm »

It's not headed up by someone called Ian Fletcher, by any chance, is it...?

No? So that's all good then.

 Grin
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Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #1127 on: January 12, 2019, 05:18:16 pm »

So Basically what we have here is a dynamic management strategy which looks at what we did well,and then expands the principals toward doing less of it ,less well but in a more managed corporate structure!.
So as you say That's all good then.
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stuving
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« Reply #1128 on: January 12, 2019, 05:58:45 pm »

There's a whole load more stuff said in the past that's looking more and more embarrassing - how about this announcement from Crossrail?

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Andrew Wolstenholme to step down as Crossrail Chief Executive
Thursday 8th March 2018
By Peter MacLennan

Crossrail Limited today announced that as part of the planned demobilisation of its delivery and leadership team, Chief Executive Andrew Wolstenholme OBE is stepping down after seven years at the helm to take up a new role in the private sector. Programme Director Simon Wright OBE will lead the organisation in a combined role as Chief Executive & Programme Director, as it completes its remaining work.

Over the coming year, the Crossrail team will reduce as works complete in the central section of the railway and some functions transfer to Transport for London as the new infrastructure owner. The revised organisation will continue to coordinate work on the surface route and the integration of infrastructure to support Elizabeth line service changes during 2019.

Sir Terry Morgan CBE, Chairman, Crossrail, said: “Construction of the Elizabeth line has entered its final stages and during the coming year we will be handing over the completed assets to Transport for London, who will lead the final testing and commissioning phase ahead of the railway’s opening in December.

“I would like to thank Andrew Wolstenholme for the phenomenal contribution he has made to the Crossrail project over the last seven years. Andrew has overseen the project’s major construction phase including 42km of new tunnels, ten new stations and the installation of systems that will support the operation of the new railway. He has steered the project with a relentless focus on safety and in a way that delivers wider benefits to the UK in innovation, skills and environmental performance. Andrew leaves the team well placed to finish the remaining construction activity and commence infrastructure testing to finish the job, ahead of the opening of the Elizabeth line.”

Note that last sentence - "Andrew leaves the team well placed to finish the remaining construction activity and commence infrastructure testing to finish the job, ahead of the opening of the Elizabeth line.” Last March the central tunnel (including its stations) must have been well over a year late, but due to open fully in less than a year. So who was kidding whom?
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #1129 on: January 12, 2019, 07:05:44 pm »

Having gone up to Paddington today and then read this, it crosses my mind as to what condition all those nice Elizabeth line trains at OOC will be in when the line is ready. Will they have rusted to the rails.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #1130 on: January 12, 2019, 11:37:45 pm »

One wonders whether Mark Wild's assessments are honest ones, in which case it is refreshing to hear (whist being very depressing), or ones that paint an unduly negative picture, in which case he can claim credit for vastly reducing a potential three year delay.

Time will tell...
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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« Reply #1131 on: January 13, 2019, 12:55:53 am »

Having gone up to Paddington today and then read this, it crosses my mind as to what condition all those nice Elizabeth line trains at OOC will be in when the line is ready. Will they have rusted to the rails.

Hopefully not, although I couldn't tell you for sure, I'd hope that the various Crossrail trains that are out and about most days between Paddington and Reading will alternate as to what unit is used for testing purposes. Naturally it's certainly possible that that isn't actually happening, someone with more knowledge on that sort of thing may know Smiley
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #1132 on: January 14, 2019, 12:34:14 pm »

I've just read this short article about Crossrail: https://www.citymetric.com/transport/11-things-i-ve-learned-pre-crossrail-crossrail-commuter-4427
It's rather badly written IMO but it does serve to highlight one contradiction (points 6 and 7 particularly): whereas for some people (including me), it's a mainstream railway line, for others it's an extension of the London Underground. (Apologies if that is obvious – in fact I'm sure it is! – or if the piece has been linked to before, but I haven't been following this thread.)
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I am starting to harbour a suspicion that I have some sort of London transport curse. I moved away from the District Line right before they finally ditched the ancient, cramped, D-stock trains in favour of the roomy new ones we have now, and my time living on the Gospel Oak - Barking Overground line coincided with it being not existent due to an upgrade plan that overran to the point that I’d moved before they actually completed it.

Still, this time I wasn’t going to get screwed. I was moving out east to the wilds of Manor Park, where within mere months I’d be able to take advantage of one of the country’s biggest ever infrastructure projects - Crossrail! Nothing could possibly go wrong!

Oh.

Still, while Crossrail doesn’t officially exist as a working service yet, the section I live on, between Liverpool Street and Shenfield, is more or less functioning (albeit under the name TfL Rail), and is even using the shiny new trains. Here’s what I’ve learned in the month or so of being a pre-Crossrail commuter.

1. Any hope that being a ‘beta tester’ might be mean the trains aren’t that crowded was wildly optimistic

The trains are already as packed as any other line. Well, it was already a busy commuter line before it was taken over by TfL, so why wouldn’t it be?

2. People who use it as an express service to get from Liverpool Street to Stratford have no honour

On the one hand there are signs at Liverpool Street recommending it as the fastest route; on the other hand, stick to the Central Line you Stratford bastards.

3. Maryland station can fuck off

It takes almost as long to walk from my house to the nearest bus stop as it does to walk from Stratford station to Maryland station. You are all cowards.

4. Still, at least not all the trains stop there

Because TfL Rail’s service patterns are currently a little eccentric. At peak times, some trains skip Manor Park and Maryland, and those that don’t skip Forest Gate. Except when they skip Forest Gate and Maryland, or they do stop at Maryland but skip Forest Gate and Manor Park.

This is almost certainly to manage crowding, not least because:

5. Although there is some Crossrail stock running, they’re still using quite a lot of the rubbish old trains

Although there are shiny new trains running alongside them, a lot of the service makes use of white-painted old, and lower-capacity stock. Still, at least this adds a fun element of chance to commuting – can you can get a new train to work AND a new train home? Congratulations, you have won TfL Rail.

6. The crowding issue would be helped if more passengers understood the concept of moving down the carriage to make some room

This is a problem on every single form of London transport (Elon Musk was right, get rid of the other passengers and just run the whole system for me). But anecdotally I suspect it’s slightly worse on suburban rail lines – which this basically still is – partly because there’s less space to bunch up into on the old-style trains. Or maybe people in East London just really like cosying up to each other by the doors, who knows?

7. You have to press the button to open the doors

Again, not unusual for a suburban rail line, but my hot take is that London transport needs to go one way or the other on this, because my brain can’t handle switching door opening paradigms and I keep lamely hitting the button on underground trains like some sort of idiot tourist.

8. Even the stations that didn’t need that much done really aren’t finished

Even Manor Park, a pre-existing above ground station, still has upgrade work going on, meaning that to get from the ticket hall to the platforms you have to exit the station and walk round the side to a gap in the fence. Obviously this isn’t the biggest deal in the world and it will look all spiffy and new when they’ve finished doing it up, but come on guys, this one didn’t even involve digging any holes!

9. Judging by how much the train empties, at the moment Stratford is at least as useful an interchange as Liverpool Street, if not more so

So at least I can get a seat for the last bit of my commute. Presumably this will change a bit once it reaches central London stations with more promising options than Liverpool Street – not least because you basically have to cross the entire concourse, which at peak time is understandably full of people trying to work out how not to be in Liverpool Street station.

10. Crossrail will be really, really good, once it actually exists

When it actually exists. If it ever actually exists.

Maybe one day I might even be able to persuade someone to come and visit me in the wild lands of Epping Forest occasionally, once they’ve worked out that Manor Park and Manor House are different places.

11. I am never calling it the Elizabeth Line and you cannot make me

Crossrail ‘til I die.
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Day return to Infinity, please.
REVUpminster
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« Reply #1133 on: January 14, 2019, 06:22:24 pm »

At least the signalman is using Crossrail tracks. 5C91 Empty Reading-Paddington-1C91-Paignton was routed by the Crossrail tracks. Gives them another option. It was held at signal 122 for quite a while until it got a route to Platform 8.

Capture2 by Robert, on Flickr


It looks like the Crossrail tracks are being used as a siding for 5C91 as it does not seem to come from Reading anymore.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 08:00:46 pm by REVUpminster » Logged
Lee
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« Reply #1134 on: January 21, 2019, 10:58:13 am »

Video emerges of doors of new Crossrail train opening directly onto tracks - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/video-emerges-of-doors-of-new-crossrail-train-opening-directly-onto-tracks-a4044211.html
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Lee
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« Reply #1135 on: January 24, 2019, 08:27:16 am »

TfL unhappy with rate of progress on Crossrail tunnels - https://www.building.co.uk/news/tfl-unhappy-with-rate-of-progress-on-crossrail-tunnels/5097502.article

Crossrail 2 commitment despite cost concerns - https://www.geplus.co.uk/news/crossrail-2-commitment-despite-cost-concerns/10039245.article

EDIT to include new article just in.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 08:45:03 am by Lee » Logged

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stuving
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« Reply #1136 on: January 29, 2019, 12:48:16 am »

The two KPMG independent review reports have been put online by TfL. It's actually the commercial and financial one that deals with project monitoring and risk assessment, rather than the governance one (which is about the top levels of CRL alone). That appears to be because anything about relations with the contractors is labelled "commercial", and a lot has been blanked out as a result. That makes it rather hard to follow - as does the severe infestation by jargon and abbreviations, and sheer length.

A quick look suggests there was (as you'd expect) a complicated multi-level risk monitoring process leading to the allocation of contingency money and timescale and readjustment of predicted dates. What isn't evident in a quick look is why that all failed. But note that KPMG's brief was more focussed on reviewing the credibility of CRL's forecasts of the time and cost required to finish the job, rather than being a whodunnit and how.
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TonyK
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« Reply #1137 on: January 29, 2019, 10:06:09 am »

I've just read this short article about Crossrail: https://www.citymetric.com/transport/11-things-i-ve-learned-pre-crossrail-crossrail-commuter-4427
It's rather badly written IMO but it does serve to highlight one contradiction (points 6 and 7 particularly): whereas for some people (including me), it's a mainstream railway line, for others it's an extension of the London Underground. (Apologies if that is obvious – in fact I'm sure it is! – or if the piece has been linked to before, but I haven't been following this thread.)

Strong words expressing a deeply held conviction. I was beginning to feel sorry for the author, when suddenly, I remembered MetroBust in Bristol.
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Now, please!
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« Reply #1138 on: January 29, 2019, 10:54:54 am »

I gather that TfL is looking to take over the Reading route anyway, to recover some of the lost income it will face.  I'm not sure what passengers will feel about that.  The trains are supposed to be a big step backwards from the current units, but at least there is the convenience of running straight through to central London.  But if they are given the new trains, less seating, no toilets, but still get dumped at Paddington, that seems to be the worst of both worlds.
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« Reply #1139 on: January 29, 2019, 02:20:45 pm »

As someone who commutes from Twyford I never thought I'd be arguing to keep GWR but Crossrail is looking more and more of a backward step for those commuting from further out.

I'd raise it with my MP but apparently she's busy...  Roll Eyes
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