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Author Topic: Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion  (Read 587129 times)
grahame
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« Reply #1185 on: April 23, 2019, 14:35:10 »

From Construction Enquirer

Quote
Ex-Crossrail chief Wolstenholme wanted more bonus cash

Former Crossrail chief executive Andrew Wolstenholme challenged a decision to withhold part of his bonus just months before it was confirmed the project would bust its budget and miss its opening date.
The details are revealed in a London Assembly report into the “tarnished” scheme.

The report confirms that Wolstenholme was paid performance bonuses of £641,000 on top of his £940,000 in wages during the two years from 2016.

[etc]
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Lee
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« Reply #1186 on: April 25, 2019, 08:46:13 »

Delays to Crossrail could have an adverse impact on house prices along the route - https://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/breaking-news/2019/4/delays-to-crossrail-could-have-an-adverse-impact-on-house-prices-along-the-route

Transport for London chief Mike Brown is set to face the London Assembly's transport committee - https://www.building.co.uk/news/tfl-boss-facing-further-grilling-over-crossrail-woe/5099125.article
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grahame
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« Reply #1187 on: April 26, 2019, 05:43:06 »

From The Londonist

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New Crossrail Launch Date Announced - But One Key Station Won't Open Then

Crossrail has identified a "six-month window for delivery of the central section, with a midpoint at the end of 2020" — so we're looking at anytime between October 2020 and March 2021, approximately two years after the planned opening date of December 2018.

The central section refers to stations between Paddington and Abbey Wood, which is expected to run 12 trains per hour during the peak initially.

Following the launch of the central section, services from Reading and Heathrow in the west to Abbey Wood and Shenfield in the east will commence "as soon as possible", although no timeframe has yet been given.

So ... openings in the current phases:
Late 2020 / early 2021 - 12 trains an hour through centre
Later - Bond Street Elizabeth Line station opens
Later - trains running through to the east and west of the centre section
Later - up to full train number service
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Lee
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« Reply #1188 on: April 26, 2019, 09:09:03 »

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/10042219.article

Quote from: Architects Journal
Crossrail 2’s commercial head has said more design time will be spent on the project to avoid the delays and cost overruns suffered by the first scheme.

Simon Adams , who is involved in planning the strategy for the proposed north-south rail link across London, said construction had started too early on the original – and now heavily delayed – £17.6 billion scheme.

According to the AJ’s sister publication Construction News: ‘On Crossrail 2 we are certainly going to spend more time on the front end and design in more detail and then contract in a way that has the long-term interests of the client at heart rather than the short-term interests of the contractors.’

The Crossrail scheme’s contracting approach meant firms were incentivised to ensure delivery of their own package of works above all else, according to the commercial chief.

‘What we saw was with a fairly immature design and a very aggressive incentive mechanism, which was an unlimited 50:50 pain/gain mechanism.

‘Contractors naturally looked to protect themselves and their individual exposure rather than collaborating to solve problems,’ he told the UK (United Kingdom) Infrastructure Policy and Investment Summit.

Even with more design time and a different incentive mechanism Crossrail 2 would still come with risks, he warned.

‘The reality with all these mega projects is they’re of a scale and complexity where no matter how hard you work at the front end you’re going to carry risk into the project and you’re not going to be able to pass that risk to a single entity,’ he said.

Crossrail 2 will be around twice the scale of Crossrail 1, with a budget of around £30 billion and 70km of tunnels running north to south compared to 42km of tunnels on the east-west line.

When and if the project will go ahead is uncertain, but Adams acknowledged its progress will likely be slowed by the first scheme’s problems.

‘I would be pretending if I said that Crossrail 1 isn’t going to have an impact on the start of Crossrail 2,’ he said.

Revenue previously earmarked for Crossrail 2 has been diverted to complete the Heathrow to Shenfield west section of Crossrail, it was announced last year.

London deputy mayor Heidi Alexander has said talks will be held with the government in the summer to determine how the second Crossrail line will be funded.

Adams said once Crossrail was complete, the path for Crossrail 2 would be smoother.

‘What we first need to understand is what the likely timescales on Crossrail are going to be,’ he said, ‘and I think once that all settles down and people start to see that come into operation and start to see the real benefits that it’s delivering, then I honestly believe we’ll see a real clamour to see Crossrail 2 get out of the blocks.”
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #1189 on: April 26, 2019, 09:25:13 »

Mark Wild, the new Crossrail CEO (Chief Executive Officer), was on LBC this morning being questioned by Mr. Ferrari. He just confirmed, as far as possible, the amended implementation timetable and explained that the two primary issues were signalling integration & building Bond Street interchange. But I think we already knew that.

Why are we so crap at Project Management?
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« Reply #1190 on: April 26, 2019, 10:39:23 »

Mark Wild, the new Crossrail CEO (Chief Executive Officer), was on LBC this morning being questioned by Mr. Ferrari. He just confirmed, as far as possible, the amended implementation timetable and explained that the two primary issues were signalling integration & building Bond Street interchange. But I think we already knew that.

But the overall timetable to opening has been decoupled from Bond Street - which will open when it feels up to it. So (as reported) the train and signalling software has to be done in parallel with the remaining stations and tunnel fit-out, then with both of those done the train running test phase can start. And that isn't a fixed duration, given the "and fix anything that doesn't work" component.

Quote
Why are we so crap at Project Management?

Good question - part of one of the great unanswered, or unasked, questions of the age. The point being that the first place to look is the estimate, since that's the reference for being over- time or budget. The only good estimate is one that corresponds with the outcome. So why are estimates unrealistic? Partly because the full cost is too high to be approved as affordable, and why that is is another part of that big question.

But why "project" management? Is operational management done any better? And who "we"?



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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #1191 on: April 26, 2019, 11:23:18 »

Why are we so crap at Project Management?

If by 'we' you mean 'people educated in Britain', I'm not sure they are: don't British Project Managers oversee countless successful projects all around the world, and not a few at home? Maybe the problem lies with the client...
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grahame
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« Reply #1192 on: April 26, 2019, 12:14:07 »

If by 'we' you mean 'people educated in Britain', I'm not sure they are: don't British Project Managers oversee countless successful projects all around the world, and not a few at home? Maybe the problem lies with the client...

You probably have hit the nail pretty well on the head there.  On Wednesday evening I went along to a local Wiltshire Council meeting to hear the latest on the "Melksham Campus".  I first got involved in March 2011, and spent a great deal of time - along with 9 significant local community members - over the following two years, and at the Council's request and with their support, working out what was needed.   Our budget was clear and fenced, our objectives were clear, and between us we reckoned we put in 8000 man-hours.   A very interesting exercise, balancing the demands of groups who pushed strongly for more than the really needed (or could be expected to use) against those who took a much more conservative view.  Planned initial use, September 2016, finished (e.g. removal of old swimming pool) over flowing winter.

We were warned as we went through this process that we needed to get it right first time, bearing in mind the cost of architects, highway engineers, planning, officer's time, etc (we were volunteers, but I really don't think those who were doing those other elements were 'free'.)

Then ... heed my words ... extra elements ranging from police to post office to a doctor's surgery were added. And with them came changed specifications - not only the space but "single reception" changed to "need multiple entrances" as the idea of having the police haul someone in handcuffs past the schoolkids on their way for a swim

Then ... the council decided, with the steering group's vetting or approval ... that the Rugby and Football's new facilities would be a huge expansion on the current facilities, and on a new site ... and suddenly a third of the budget, and four time what we had expected, went to that.   It may have been the right decision, but without visibility I remain doubtful. There's a suggestion with the numbers as presented that the council may have sold itself the land for the rugby and football - thus pulling money out from the fenced budget into other council pots - double-dipping might be the term.

And ... guess what ... the community group is then told it's over specified the building, got elements of it wrong, and is being reduced to a much more advisory role ... it will be called together again when it's advise is needed and that has been never.

So - on Wednesday, we went along to see new plans that Wiltshire Council have submitted to Wiltshire Council.   Even there, there are elements "at the last minute we have consulted with the public and as a result added ...." swimming pool seating which we knew about 7 years ago, for example.  Completion planned for 2021.   Looks very different. The public facilities that the site was all about are now to be shared with residential accommodation "to help pay for it all". We are assured the budget is unchanged.  Maybe; I probably can't tell you the amount still - but by the time you look at so many cycles of planning and working out, dipping money out to buy land you own already, and the rest, I would not be surprised if the spend on the Campus facilities themselves is less than half of what was planned - somewhere in the order of 40% in fact.

Yes, the volunteer group can hold its head high, even though accused of a lack of prudence.  Moving goal posts, problem with client!
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #1193 on: April 26, 2019, 12:31:35 »


If by 'we' you mean 'people educated in Britain', I'm not sure they are: don't British Project Managers oversee countless successful projects all around the world, and not a few at home? Maybe the problem lies with the client...

Up to a point, almost certainly...but during my working life I was involved, not as the PM I hasten to add, in numerous projects which went 'pear-shaped' because for a variety of reasons the responsible PM failed to inform the client that what they were asking for could either not be done at all or certainly not within the requested timescale and/or budget. I am very clear who should carry the can under those circumstances.
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« Reply #1194 on: April 26, 2019, 15:19:43 »


If by 'we' you mean 'people educated in Britain', I'm not sure they are: don't British Project Managers oversee countless successful projects all around the world, and not a few at home? Maybe the problem lies with the client...

Up to a point, almost certainly...but during my working life I was involved, not as the PM I hasten to add, in numerous projects which went 'pear-shaped' because for a variety of reasons the responsible PM failed to inform the client that what they were asking for could either not be done at all or certainly not within the requested timescale and/or budget. I am very clear who should carry the can under those circumstances.

Well, in my long experience of Project Engineering I've never been afraid of telling the client the truth even if it circumvents the PM.  Never ever got pushed out of my job for doing so...... Cheesy
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« Reply #1195 on: April 26, 2019, 17:19:09 »

In my experience in IT projects the failures come from:
  • Inadequate initial definition and resource costings
  • 'Moving of goal posts' by client / senior management
  • Rosy views by management that ignore reports and hide developing problems
Processes like GRIP (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) and PRINCE are designed to alleviate these issues but they are frequently not properly followed.

A successful PM should report truthfully and resist underbudgeting and scope change.  Grahame has quoted a typical example of local government scope change.
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« Reply #1196 on: April 26, 2019, 17:49:42 »

So, we're relying on PRINCE now? Must be a Sign o' the Times...
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« Reply #1197 on: April 26, 2019, 21:52:11 »

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Why are we so crap at Project Management?

It's not just us - it's a universal problem, and there's examples from all around the world.

It might make you feel a bit better if you look up  the never-ending saga of Berlin's new airport - see  http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20181030-what-happened-to-berlins-ghost-airport for details
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« Reply #1198 on: April 26, 2019, 22:46:03 »

So, we're relying on PRINCE now? Must be a Sign o' the Times...

I will rise to that one as a PRINCE practitioner.
Properly followed by ALL concerned it will guide decision making and assist in making the correct decisions.  No methodology, though, can match an experienced project manager who eats ground glass for breakfast and politicians (elected or corporate) for lunch.
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« Reply #1199 on: April 26, 2019, 22:51:48 »

So, we're relying on PRINCE now? Must be a Sign o' the Times...

I will rise to that one as a PRINCE practitioner.
Properly followed by ALL concerned it will guide decision making and assist in making the correct decisions.  No methodology, though, can match an experienced project manager who eats ground glass for breakfast and politicians (elected or corporate) for lunch.

I'm certainly with you on that one - Any PM worth their salt needs to be able to tell these people where to Gett Off.
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