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Author Topic: Crossrail - The Elizabeth Line - ongoing discussion, merged topics  (Read 345365 times)
stuving
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« Reply #1230 on: June 26, 2019, 05:13:14 pm »

So - fingers crossed and touch wood - this looks like Elizabeth Line trains to take the bulk of the strain of Reading - Paddington services by the time the new timetable starts, releasing class the 379s left after the pool has been raided for Heathrow Express for the remainder of the electrified Thames Valley services.

Yes - though CRL's announcement is not actually that new; it was presented to the TfL board meeting a month ago. At the same meeting, the TfL Commissioner's report included:
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We are working with Crossrail Ltd, Network Rail and the Government to progress plans to take over services between Paddington main line station and Reading from the end of 2019.
...
Dynamic testing of the trains in the tunnels has continued with intensive work to further increase the reliability of the train software and enable trains to operate across the three signalling systems. Trains have been operating at line speed (100 kph/62 mph) in the central section using the new automatic signalling system and close-headway multi-train testing.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1231 on: July 20, 2019, 09:19:58 am »

More cost and delay highlighted;

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/crossrail-delay-cost-rail-east-west-line-london-mps-a9012101.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/crossrail-bosses-accused-by-mps-over-letting-down-taxpayers-in-twoyear-delay-a4193941.html
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1232 on: August 03, 2019, 08:12:40 pm »

Interesting programme on C5 now....."Crossrail- where did it all go wrong?"
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Charlie (in Gloucester)
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« Reply #1233 on: August 03, 2019, 09:42:47 pm »

Interesting programme on C5 now....."Crossrail- where did it all go wrong?"


It certainly was. Highlighted many issues to do with funding but also further uncertainty of who is to blame..
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TonyK
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« Reply #1234 on: August 04, 2019, 06:00:57 pm »

The lesson seems to be that the tunneling was easy, and we weren't ready for building the railway in that environment.
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Now, please!
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« Reply #1235 on: November 08, 2019, 12:38:24 pm »

Latest delay now announced, not opening until 2021, and another £650 million cost overrun.
I have no faith in it fully opening by that date, and expect further cost overruns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50345344
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #1236 on: November 08, 2019, 03:08:09 pm »

Not good news for GWR at Paddington as platform capacity will be stretched from December with the extra trains and the longer Crossrail Class 345s are clogging up the station the more potential impact on performance there will be to GWR.

The only interim measure that can be taken, reducing the HEx service to a one platform operation, will make a bit of a difference, but that in itself introduces a performance risk to HEx which will potentially affect GWR too.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #1237 on: November 08, 2019, 03:53:14 pm »

What isn't clear from this, and the press release on the Crossrail website is whether there is any possibility of running trains westwards from Paddington Crossrail station at some earlier date as the focus is on the central section. 2020 is down to initially test running up to 24 trains per hour through, later running with test passengers, so maybe this can't be done.
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grahame
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« Reply #1238 on: November 08, 2019, 04:39:14 pm »

What isn't clear from this, and the press release on the Crossrail website is whether there is any possibility of running trains westwards from Paddington Crossrail station at some earlier date as the focus is on the central section. 2020 is down to initially test running up to 24 trains per hour through, later running with test passengers, so maybe this can't be done.

I suspected when I read that ... that central section testing will involve possession of the platforms at Paddington (Crossrail) station and so they won't be available for trains coming in from the west to reverse.   A Google search brought me to something that looked a wee bit familiar!


As usual this drawing should be taken with a Health Warning as it may not be up to date  (e.g. I am aware that an additional crossover is going in at Paddington to allow the Royal Oak sidings to be accessed from Platform Nos.2 to 5).  If anybody would like a higher resolution copy then please send me a PM with an email address.



I would make an educated guess that central section testing will involve trains arriving into the westbound platform at Paddington from Whitechapel (or wherever they come from), using the reversing siding to the west and then heading out again back toward Whitechapel from the eastbound platform.    And if that's the case the answer to the original question is "no - Paddington Crossrail will be tied up with the testing and not available to Thames Valley services".
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broadgage
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« Reply #1239 on: November 08, 2019, 04:53:59 pm »

My cynical mind naturally assumes that no Crossrail trains will run Westwards from Paddington until 2021 or later.
Apart from the points already made re needing the Crossrail platforms for test running, it seems a reasonable assumption that if running west of Paddington WAS planned, that this would have been announced with much fanfare.

"Despite this slight delay to operation through the central core, we are very pleased to announce that our new state of the art trains WILL be operating a very frequent service between Paddington and Reading from xx-yy"

The absence of any such announcement means it (almost certainly) wont happen.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Reading General
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« Reply #1240 on: November 08, 2019, 08:28:29 pm »

I'm somebody who doesn't know the intricate workings of the railway, or track layouts in detail, but I've always had my doubts on how on earth this metro to mainline arrangement would work, and from the beginning there has never been any explanation. I thought that any delayed from trains west of Heathrow will finish in the mainline terminus at London Paddington and now it looks like all from furthest west will just finish there anyhow and they hope nobody will notice. If that does happen, it is outrageous that tfl will collect 50% of the fares on the relief lines from Reading. From the beginning all that has been required is an increase in capacity for the relief line stations between Reading and London, which GWR could have achieved alone. The fare arrangement is something else that seems vague and without explanation.
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #1241 on: November 09, 2019, 07:30:28 am »

My cynical mind naturally assumes that no Crossrail trains will run Westwards from Paddington until 2021 or later.
Apart from the points already made re needing the Crossrail platforms for test running, it seems a reasonable assumption that if running west of Paddington WAS planned, that this would have been announced with much fanfare.

"Despite this slight delay to operation through the central core, we are very pleased to announce that our new state of the art trains WILL be operating a very frequent service between Paddington and Reading from xx-yy"

The absence of any such announcement means it (almost certainly) wont happen.

But it is happening from this December, albeit from the mainline platforms at Paddington.

And there has been a lot of fanfare in this area within the local tabloids recently

(http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/tfl-rail-to-operate-services-to-reading-from-15-december)
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #1242 on: November 09, 2019, 08:16:55 am »

Those with a technical mind might find this 'signalling' update interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qi046Xn6lA
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stuving
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« Reply #1243 on: November 09, 2019, 01:36:43 pm »

Even before that rescheduling announcement, I wondered if there was anything in TfL board meeting (or similar) minutes worth looking for. But, before doing that I checked on London Reconnections to see what they have to say. And I found that Pedantic of Purley has written a detailed report and commentary on the 23rd October meeting of the Programmes & Investment Committee (with someone who attended). Obviously it's long and complicated (like Crossrail), but tells us that Mark Wild said the tunnel opening (phase 3) date was already up against the right-hand window frame. The announcement follows on from that by demolishing enough of the adjoining wall to insert a new window at least as wide as the old one.

Two other points I note from that article (without checking its source): first that lower priority is being given to how soon the tunnel is in use, and more to completing the full testing process. Put like that it sounds like a false distinction doesn't it? Curtailing testing was surely never going to be an option offered to TfL. Perhaps it should say a lower priority given to promising an early date for the core opening.

The other point is about signalling:
Quote
One of the bits of good news was that Mark was confident that TfL could be running Class 345 trains to Heathrow Terminal 4 in “the early part” of 2020 now that issues with the signalling have been identified as solvable – if not already solved.

I never could see how this was an EMC problem, just a "normal" difficult environment for which solutions can be found.

Incidentally, I just found the formal application from Network rail for an exemption from RSAR199 covering "GW 0 to 12mp", i.e. out to Airport Junction. It allows enhanced TPWS to be used on 345s and 387s from service start (2019 - at least in the text) to 2023, in place of the promised ETCS which is still not quite ready.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #1244 on: November 10, 2019, 10:25:50 am »

The one thing that struck me from that report was the fact that the new trains have a reliability of 500 miles between failures (MTBF), as opposed to 20,000 or 60,000 on other stock. That is about a dozen trips between Paddington and Reading. My relaibility engineering is far to rusty to produce figures to cover that sort of reliability, but I would imagine they would need a lot of spare trains. Also might make the December timetable "interesting",
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