Crossrail/Elizabeth Line. From construction to operation - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

A bit of an old thread to resurrect, but as far as I know the first really big civil engineering contract affecting the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) part of the Crossrail project has finally been let by Network Rail.  It concerns design work for the 'dive under' at Acton Yard so as to allow freight services departing the yard westwards to not have to conflict with moves on the Up Relief line.  Although it doesn't sound like a large contract, there will need to be quite major alterations to the track layout to fit it in.

More details here:  http://www.build.co.uk/construction_news.asp?newsid=113420

[eightf48544]

In answer to Tom Langley questions, July's Modern railways has details of other contracts let for Crossrail work in the Central Area.

As regards what happens to the current FGW^▸ (First Great Western) releif line servies when the wires run out at Maidenhead nobody is very sure but as far as i can see it completely wrecks teh current pattern on the line.

It seems that Crossrail will monopolise the Relief lines from Maidenhead with an every train all stations. There is talk of possible diesel shuttle from Reading to Slough.

However it does seem the the very large flow of passengers to and from stations from West Drayton to Ealing Broadway from Twyford and westward will no longer have through trains and will have to change at Slough or Maidenhead.

IMO^▸ (in my opinion) Crossrail does not work west of Eastbourne terrace.

[onthecushions]

The real question could be; how did Crossrail get as far as M'head.

IIRRC, the modern idea began with Sir Peter Parker of BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)), who wanted a Bristol-Norwich mainline axis. Lovely idea. Then came the overcrowding on the Central Line of LUL^▸ (London Underground Ltd), with serious London lobbyists wanting a relief line. Hence the Liverpool St-Paddington tunnel, with a kink towards T'ham Ct Rd to please developers and displease St Pancras International users. However the costs and benefits (the BCR^▸ (Benefit Cost Ratio) ratio) were out of balance - only about 1.1 I think, so extensions of existing services at each end were examined. This improved (c1.5) if Heathrow were included and even more (c2.0) if M'head were reached. The logic of M'head was that it was as far as the existing electricity Feeder Station (at OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot))) could supply. However the BCR continues to improve the further West (including Reading) you go until the graph goes vertical and the actual (not computed socio-economic) cost savings are greater than the capital repayments, hence the BCR becomes infinite (with GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) wiring). However Reading Station is itself a very difficult and costly unravelling task, so M'head as a limit makes good delivery side sense. The argument was also made that Reading commuters would use fast (diesel) services over stopping electric Crossrails. This overlooks Reading's regional importance - more commuters in than out.

There are loose ends, such as who gets the relief line paths etc but they will be  problems of success....

Hope this helps,

OTC

[Electric train]

The classic 25kV feed for the OHLE would have needed a Grid at Iver, Crossrail / GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification is / was / may be replacing this with an "auto transformer" system 50kV (complex to explain its a French system but the trains still run at 25kV) the in feed is at Kensel off of a 400kV subterranean grid line (the next GWML in feed would be Didcot).

The FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise expires before Crossrail starts running trains also FGW may not be to corporative with all the possession Crossrail require if they is no reward for them, quite frankly the inner TV services are a mess the solution is for HMG to bite the bullet and extend Crossrail to Reading but they are unlikely to do this when they are ripping public expenditure to shreds.

There is going to be several Crossrail blockades Acton is one area, Stockley Park another

[JayMac]

From Building Magazine:

CBI warns spending review must not target Crossrail

Business group urges Treasury to protect work on Crossrail and Tube upgrades in order to boost growth

The CBI is calling on government to guarantee that Crossrail and work upgrading London^s Underground continues after next month^s Spending Review.

In a submission to the Treasury today, the business group said that as government limits spending it should prioritise areas that foster the economies ability to grow and and has outlined a number of proposals.

The government has said that it will make ^32bn of annual spending cuts by 2014/15. However, while the CBI agrees that spending must be limited to avoid major tax rises that would damage the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) economy and undermine competitiveness, it says protect funding in areas that foster economic growth must be protected.

It adds that the government must prioritse investment in infrastructure as well as research and development and education and training. Inparticualr it highlights the importance of investing in transport infrastructure as this offers high returns and will play a crucial role in boosting domestic and international trade.

This includes Crossrail and upgrades to London^s Underground as well as maintaining existing transport infrastructure and returning public sector capital investment to 2.25% of GDP.

The CBI says savings can be made by subjecting all public sector transport projects to rigorous value for money assessments and by attracting more private sector funding and by reducing concessionary fares and the number of Highways Agency contracts.

John Cridland, CBI deputy director general, said: ^Cutting spending means tough choices. We think that the need for economic growth, not the noise of the loudest voice, should determine where cuts are made. The Government must improve the efficiency of public services and focus the limited public money available on areas that do most to galvanise growth.^

[Andy]

"In a submission to the Treasury today, the business group said that as government limits spending it should prioritise areas that foster the economies ability to grow and and has outlined a number of proposals."

"Inparticualr"

"it says protect funding in areas that foster economic growth must be protected."

Building Magazine needs to send one of its journalists on a basic grammar, spelling/typing and syntax course!!
 

[JayMac]

Perhaps it was written by a builder! 

[anthony215]

Seems like the order for crossrail's new trains are going ahead but will be a tried & tested design so that means electrostars's or those EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'S which are built by seimens ( What are they called?)

Link herwe which includes some further news about crossrail:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11418800

Could the government order additional trains for Thameslink as part of the Crossrail order?

[paul7575]

That's the wrong way round.

It is the Thameslink trains that have to be ordered now, Crossrail doesn't need trains until about 2016 for service in 2017.

Crossrail's ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) isn't out yet, and won't be for ages, so I think you are reading too much into the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) article. It just means whenever they do order them, they won't require a dedicated design.

Paul

[JayMac]

From the guardian (27/09/2010):

Crossrail prepares to make major budget cuts

Crossrail today set out a series of cost savings to its ^15.9bn budget, which experts said could total "hundreds of millions" of pounds.

The company building the rail line across London said that the scope of the project would not change, meaning that all the stations and the outer-London spurs will still be built. Efficiencies would be found by making use of existing train designs, rather than building new carriages from scratch, the company said.

The latest cuts are part of Crossrail's ongoing review of costs on the line, which will run for more than 73 miles from Maidenhead and Heathrow in the west, through new, twin-bore 13-mile tunnels under central London to Shenfield and Abbey Wood in the east.

The company outlined six areas where savings could be made: a redesign of Whitechapel station in east London; looking at the potential for savings on other stations; using the same signs and lights along the route and buying them in bulk; reusing existing and disused infrastructure, such as the Connaught tunnel in the Docklands; ensuring that tunnelling work now being procured is as cost-efficient as possible; and using existing train designs.

No figures for potential savings were provided, but experts said that they would amount to "hundreds of millions" of pounds. They will be outlined in full this year when Crossrail submits revised estimates of the total project cost to Transport for London and the Department for Transport.

Noble Francis, economic policy development director at the Construction Products Association, said savings were unlikely to be on a larger scale: "Saving billions of pounds here would be difficult."

Although construction costs have plummeted as the sector has weathered a deep recession since the initial estimates were produced, rail infrastructure work has remained relatively buoyant.

"For large parts of this, you need rail-specific labour. Rail spending is actually increasing," Francis said.

Prices of important raw materials have also gone up recently.

Francis said he expected the work would be phased too to ensure cash is spent later rather than sooner, easing the burden on the public finances in the current strained environment. The bulk of the spending is expected to come in 2012-15, with the first trains due to run in 2017.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, a swathe of similar stories over the last couple of days, and it's right that Crossrail should save where it can in order to survive.  It looks increasingly likely that the project will be completed in full - although everything seems to have gone a little quiet over the logical and necessary Reading extention?

Swish newly designed trains and overly ornate stations are all very good, but I'd rather live without them and have the project survive in full.  I'm sure most other people would feel the same.

[JayMac]

We've never had swish new trains or ornate stations for Thameslink (or Thameslink 2000 - remember that?) Let's just hope that Crossrail doesn't take as long, or suffer the same political machinations, as Thameslink has.

[Electric train]

Swish newly designed trains and overly ornate stations are all very good, but I'd rather live without them and have the project survive in full.  I'm sure most other people would feel the same.

  The decision to extend to Reading will not be made until the future of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification is settled, a) will it happen at all b) will it be just the TV services or c) Bristol / S Wales; if its "a" then the extension of Crossrail to Reading could happen at a future date.

My understanding from people I know in the Crossrail team is it is all still a moving feast to what the end product will be exactly, the trains are likely to lower powered this will affect acceleration times but will be cheaper to build .......... it is after all a "Metro service"

We've never had swish new trains or ornate stations for Thameslink (or Thameslink 2000 - remember that?) Let's just hope that Crossrail doesn't take as long, or suffer the same political machinations, as Thameslink has.

Have you seen the plans for Blackfriers, London Bridge, Farindon etc !!!  Crossrail is already falling foul of political interference Crossrail could even end up with Thameslink cast off 319's they are tunnel rated

[JayMac]

I'll concede the point on the stations (ornate or otherwise!) but as for the rolling stock.......

[Zoe]

Crossrail could even end up with Thameslink cast off 319's they are tunnel rated

I doubt it, Crossrail will be using ATO^▸ (Automatic Train Operation).