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Author Topic: Stock cascade of class 150s  (Read 153335 times)
willc
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2011, 02:58:48 »

Why are you wondering where the 'spare' 175 is coming from? The refurbishment programme for them is due for completion in May, so they will all be available for traffic again, rather than ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) having to allow for sets being out of action for overhaul.

As for Turbos, what are you on about? I can't imagine for a moment anyone is worrying about clearances at Trowbridge or anywhere else just now, as every 165 and 166 FGW (First Great Western) has is going to be fully committed for the next five years or so in the Thames Valley and Cotswolds until electrification happens. There are none to spare for anywhere else, indeed FGW needs more stock in this area to cope with commuter traffic, not less.

And unless and until CrossCountry electrification between Bristol and Birmingham is authorised, wires won't be going anywhere near Gloucester or Cheltenham.
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paul7575
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2011, 08:35:05 »

Reason for the question will the decision to cancel the 172/4 order for Pompey/Cardiff being the need to shuffle everything else.?

There never was a 172/4 order.  Even the sub class number is pure speculation. 

It is only an assumption (albeit fairly reasonable) that the famous 202 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) order would have consisted of a run-on of 172s - the electrifcation decision knocked the DMU order on the head before the tender process really got going.

The ITT (Invitation to Tender) went out Dec 2008, it had all been cancelled by Jul 2009 when the electrifcation paper was published.

Paul
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ChrisB
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2011, 09:26:26 »

First, the 150s from LM (London Midland - recent franchise) won't be arriving in May. Late summer is the current estimate. They have to train all their drivers on 172s before they can ne brought into service.

I've not heard from FGW (First Great Western) about them clearing Trowbridge for turbos. Probably because they don't have any spares for that route. I think you're mistaken or dreaming.
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The SprinterMeister
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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2011, 09:51:11 »

I've not heard from FGW (First Great Western) about them clearing Trowbridge for turbos. Probably because they don't have any spares for that route. I think you're mistaken or dreaming.

I understand Dundas Aqueduct (up line) is the sticking point as far as clearing 165/166 for Bathampton Jn - Bradford Jn is concerned. All non 15x trains are restricted to 30mph at this loaction and there is a mark in the brickwork in the arch where it has been struck by a freight train at some previous point in time.

I suspect the only way to obtain the neccessary clearance is going to be to lower the track through the arch (and presumably about 200 yards each side).
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2011, 11:25:29 »

Reason for the question will the decision to cancel the 172/4 order for Pompey/Cardiff being the need to shuffle everything else.?

There never was a 172/4 order.  Even the sub class number is pure speculation. 

It is only an assumption (albeit fairly reasonable) that the famous 202 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) order would have consisted of a run-on of 172s - the electrifcation decision knocked the DMU order on the head before the tender process really got going.

The ITT (Invitation to Tender) went out Dec 2008, it had all been cancelled by Jul 2009 when the electrifcation paper was published.

Paul

I think the jury's still out on whether the cancellation decision was a wise move. Certainly whether electrification will eventually release sufficient stock to cover for projected growth figures, and with petrol prices only going one way for the forseable future making those figures doubtful.

By the time DfT» (Department for Transport - about) realise that, it will be prohibitively expensive to restart a domestic production line.

I think the point I was trying to make was that DfT are now left with a deckchair shuffling exercise.
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anthony215
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2011, 11:37:30 »

Why are you wondering where the 'spare' 175 is coming from? The refurbishment programme for them is due for completion in May, so they will all be available for traffic again, rather than ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) having to allow for sets being out of action for overhaul.

As for Turbos, what are you on about? I can't imagine for a moment anyone is worrying about clearances at Trowbridge or anywhere else just now, as every 165 and 166 FGW (First Great Western) has is going to be fully committed for the next five years or so in the Thames Valley and Cotswolds until electrification happens. There are none to spare for anywhere else, indeed FGW needs more stock in this area to cope with commuter traffic, not less.

And unless and until CrossCountry electrification between Bristol and Birmingham is authorised, wires won't be going anywhere near Gloucester or Cheltenham.




I meant FGW did look at using some of the class 165/166, once they had been replaced in the thames valley by electrification. (This was posted on another forum and it was a bit about in in a article in one of the railway magazines back in 2009/2010)  Also i when i meant FGW were supposed to be having the London midland class 150's i should have said anytime time from may 2011.

finally as for the wires to cheltenham i meant maybe the WAG» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) should put some money toward the scheme   if they do pay for the wires to Swansea to allow a Swansea  to Cheltenham service using EMU (Electric Multiple Unit)'s thus freein up some DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s to provide extra capacity elsewhere
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ChrisB
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2011, 13:20:22 »

WAG» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) may put money into wires to Swansea (indeed, the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) want them too), but not in the Cheltenham direction. They'll stop before the border....and with no wires twixt Parkway & the outskirts of Brum, no chance.
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paul7575
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2011, 16:46:07 »

I meant FGW (First Great Western) did look at using some of the class 165/166, once they had been replaced in the thames valley by electrification.

It is a bit more concrete than just in rail forums and magazines, but AFAICS (As Far As I Can See) isn't strictly an FGW proposal.  It is an option proposed by, and published by, Network Rail in the appropriate route business plans, and has been for about 3 or 4 years now, and as you'd expect it requires gauge clearance as a pre-requisite.  Whether it is agreed by FGW is not stated... 

Paul
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JayMac
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2011, 16:50:31 »

....and when it comes to fruition it might not even be FGW (First Great Western) that are the operator!
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2011, 17:02:52 »

FGW (First Great Western) decision to extend (or not) the franchise, assuming they qualify will be known by the end of the year....
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willc
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2011, 18:54:07 »

Why are you wondering where the 'spare' 175 is coming from? The refurbishment programme for them is due for completion in May, so they will all be available for traffic again, rather than ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) having to allow for sets being out of action for overhaul.

As for Turbos, what are you on about? I can't imagine for a moment anyone is worrying about clearances at Trowbridge or anywhere else just now, as every 165 and 166 FGW (First Great Western) has is going to be fully committed for the next five years or so in the Thames Valley and Cotswolds until electrification happens. There are none to spare for anywhere else, indeed FGW needs more stock in this area to cope with commuter traffic, not less.

And unless and until CrossCountry electrification between Bristol and Birmingham is authorised, wires won't be going anywhere near Gloucester or Cheltenham.




I meant FGW did look at using some of the class 165/166, once they had been replaced in the thames valley by electrification. (This was posted on another forum and it was a bit about in in a article in one of the railway magazines back in 2009/2010)  Also i when i meant FGW were supposed to be having the London midland class 150's i should have said anytime time from may 2011.

finally as for the wires to cheltenham i meant maybe the WAG» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) should put some money toward the scheme   if they do pay for the wires to Swansea to allow a Swansea  to Cheltenham service using EMU (Electric Multiple Unit)'s thus freein up some DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s to provide extra capacity elsewhere


Look, wiring to Oxford and Newbury is five years away and many things can change in that time. In 2005, the Strategic Rail Authority said it couldn't see a case to redouble the Cotswold Line, yet six years later trains will soon be running on a redoubled Cotswold Line. This time last year, everyone thought they knew where all the LM (London Midland - recent franchise) Class 150s were going, but now some may stay at LM while FGW may get more sets than it first expected, and Northern fewer than it hoped to receive, so anything could happen to the Turbo fleet by 2016 and speculating about it now is pretty pointless.

And as a way of dealing with overcrowded trains between Cardiff and Hampshire, quite how three-car Turbos would be any improvement on three-car 158s beats me. The 'additional' seating in Turbos is because of 3+2 suburban seats, which would be no more suited to that route than they are to services from London to Worcestershire and Hereford. What is needed are four or five-car trains, properly configured for medium-distance journeys, and Turbos just don't fit the bill.

No XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) wiring means no wiring of anything else in Gloucestershire but if Bristol-Birmingham were to happen, then you might well look at doing Swindon-Gloucester and Gloucester-Newport, both to benefit the regular services, allow freight services to the Midlands to switch to electric traction and and provide an electrified diversion avoiding the Severn Tunnel but in isolation, neither makes any sense, rather like just wiring Cardiff-Swansea for express services, while pretty much everything else on the line remains diesel.
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northwesterntrains
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2011, 09:57:57 »

Reason for the question will the decision to cancel the 172/4 order for Pompey/Cardiff being the need to shuffle everything else.?

I thought that had been cancelled following the electrification announcement and the plan is to replace 165s with 319s and then use the 165s on Pompey/Cardiff.
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northwesterntrains
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« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2011, 10:02:00 »

Also ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) seem to have managed to find a class 175 unit to work the 2nd WAG» (Welsh Assembly Government - about) express service rom may til december when it will then go over to class 67, mk3 & dvt operation. 

From what's been reported on railforums.co.uk ATW will be using a W&S (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) loco hauled set which only requires a repaint and more staff being trained on loco hauled sets before it is put in to service.

The W&S set is leased to DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) who now own Arriva.
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paul7575
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« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2011, 10:55:43 »

Reason for the question will the decision to cancel the 172/4 order for Pompey/Cardiff being the need to shuffle everything else.?

I thought that had been cancelled following the electrification announcement and the plan is to replace 165s with 319s and then use the 165s on Pompey/Cardiff.

As pointed out already...

Paul
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ChrisB
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« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2011, 11:59:06 »

No decision on the 165/166s. Will be fown to the micro-managing DfT» (Department for Transport - about) to allocate.
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